5200-5500km is usually quoted but the quaston remain: is it with or without ext tanks. Su-34 range with ext tanks can easely match 5500km.
4000km is on internal fuel. Howether i saw 4500km figure also.
I wonder what is F-111 range on internal fuel? Americans usually give ferry range with ext. tanks and russians without.
“I fear the Russians aren’t seeing the Big Picture. Billions of dollars worth of deals in the pipeline, yet they’re trying to screw India on one, relatively small, deal. Wouldn’t it make more sense to say “Sorry, we got this a bit wrong. We’ll soak up the loss on this one & compensate you for the delay, to show good faith.”, rather than scaring the Indians with the prospect of similar disasters on those other, some much bigger, deals?”
Exectly my thoughts!!!
Guys i can’t believe you comparing puny and often rediculous designes such as old french and british so-called carriers to the mighty (compared to them of course) Gorshkov. Gorshkov was of cource ASW carrier, but so were all soviet carriers prior to Kuznetzov. Do they upgrade ASW equipment or they will dismantle its huge bulp in the nose underwater?
When Vikramaditya will be ready it will be 3 most powerfull non-american carrier in the world (Kuznetzov an de Goll beign better).
I think what russians did was genius!!!
They blinded indians by giving them for free a billion (or multi-billion) dollar ship for which they had no use and then squized out of contract averything possible.
Whait a minute, its not all!!! By imposing upon indians MiG-29K they also increased MiG-35’s chances of winning MMRCA since they are have 90-95% commonality.
If we go for the standart comparison
Su-27 – F-15C
Su-30 – F-15E
Su-27SM should be at least on par with F-15J, since Su-27 had advantage over early F-15C.
Su-27SM should be better by some margin then Slam Eaagle given that it was based on F-15E and is inherently clumsier. Again if Su-27SM radar really old then it have little chance in BVR. WVR only J-10 can try to fight it.
F-111,Su-17,MiG-23,Tu-22M,F-14,Su-24,Tornado,B-1. Dassault experimented with Mirage G. Seems that in the late 60’s early 70’s swing-wings ruled.
“For a pure transfer without any speed requirements a swing wing enjoys a considerable advantage in lift over drag, especially when loaded to max TOW. The low thrust-to-weight (compared to current fighters) helps to exploit this advantage.”
I am lost brother. Please provide some examples.
If VG wings were born from contradict requirements what is exactly changed? Why everybody first jumped on VG then abandoned them if as you say “swing wing enjoys a considerable advantage in lift over drag, especially when loaded to max TOW”?
I wonder why soviet designes carry only 2 fuel tanks. Given 6 tanks Su-24 will reach at least 75% of F-111 payload-range capability. Su-34 with 6 tanks can beat F-111 hands down.
Your summurise about Su-24 has some missing details.
First it was not even less range, but less related payload capability too.
Second, the internal fuelload was similar, but empty equipped was higher.
Third the AL-31 did become available in the 80s and the demand in production capability was reserved for the Su-27.
The first T-10s were flown with AL-21s.
The bypath-ratio of the AL-31F is still lower than that of the TF-30. For optimum close to ground-level it has to be ~1:1.
The Su-34 has an amoured cockpit and is heavy empty equipped compared to the F-111F f.e.
The Su-34 has not the weight penalty of VG, but not the less drag related to that too. So it has not the weight-range capabilities of the F-111F it is sturdy built and offers higher G-loads. To ease some temper, the follow-on of the F-111F the F-15E does not reach the weight-range capabilities of the F-111F either.
So some aircraft built in the 60s, like the A-6 too, were close to optimum for a given mission.
I wonder if Su-34 have better range on internal fuel only then F-111.
What advantages Su-34 have with its more powerful engines?
I read that it would be Su-34 to recieve first AL-41. What will change then?
Guys let us put things in order.
I can summurise that Su-24 was more or less equal in capability to F-111 except for the range. Two reasons for that. One – thirsty AL-21 turbojets and two – less internal fuel.
Obvious questions are why these shortcomings were not fixed. Already in 70’s soviets had excellent AL-31 turbofan. As for the internal fuel ,modern MiG-29 showed that this obstacle can be overcame too. Given the fact that Su-24 and F-111 are same size aircraft i don’t see why it couldn’t have same internal fuel volume.
Another question is why Su-34 still have less range then F-111 if it have modern high bypass turbofans. Internal fuel again?
“The Il-78 wasn’t a factor. Neither the MiG-29 nor the Su-27 had IFR capability. The A-50 was not a serious factor either, as the Soviets were using a GCI structured air defense network.”
Why then soviets built 40 A-50?
How they wanted to fight over say France or Japan, if they counted only on CGI?
I think that in 1990 Soviet Air Force and PVO aviation was stronger then USAF and NAVY aviation. Su-27 and MiG-29 did tilt the balance. However it would depend if A-50 and IL-78 small fleet could assist them in at least a comparable way as american force multipliers.
BTW who know respectable strenths of american and soviet AWACS and tankers in 1990?
Indeed people usually pair F-15 with Su-27 and F-16 with MiG-29. Howether MiG-29 unlike F-16 was desighned as air superiority fighter. Su-27 was supposed to be long range interceptor.
In fact if MiG-29 had longer legs the need for Su-27 would have been so much smaller.
MiG-29 was more then capable to take on F-15A.
MiG-29 HMS was probably the first that really worked. In fact as it is seems now there was no way that anybody survive WVR fight with MiG-29 in 80’s.
Of cource R-73 was a leap too compared to Sidewinder.