SeverodvinskThey have one, Kuznetsov. It’s just repaired (that took about 8 years) and got out to sea for a month. At anchor for Iceland some time ago. There have been quite some contraditory statements about plans for a new one. First Kuroyedov said they intended to upgrade Kuznetsov and aimed for a new one in 2017. But, iirc, a month later he stated they didn’t want to build a new one and that the Navy had concentrate on other tasks. Which, were, protection of EEZ, territiorial waters etc. All tasks for which a carrier is “slightly” overpowered (and of course overfinanced).
So, I think they’ll keep Kuznetsov till the end of its life, or even before that, sell her.
Kuznetsov had a sistership, Varyag, it was sold to China and is now berthed over there.
The old Kiev carriers: Minsk and Kiev are in China as Museums, Novorosiysk is scrapped (not sure about that, but I think I read that somewhere) and Baku (later renamed Admiral Gorshkov) was sold to India beginning of this year. It was of an upgraded design of Kiev and will be completely rebuilt (probably enter service in IN in 2008)
SeverodvinskHmm, mine has changed a lot.
Started soft with Rage Against the Machine, grown softer to Wu-Tang Clan, postmen and more hip-hop stuff. Then taken it to the harder way of Korn,Deftones, Tool up to Slipknot. Now it has gone down to Lenny Kravitz, And basically every piece of guitarrock. Velvet revolver’s very good too. New Papa Roach single rocks too!!!
SeverodvinskI was already wondering where I used that word…
And, please don’t use the excuse you are a pale face Brit or American either
because people of those nationalistic groups don’t find it a neccessity to contradict or downplay
progress of others because, they know full well that they are ahead of the game…
Now, PALE FACED BRIT OR AMERICAN, you think that isn’t offensive? I think it is, judging people on colour eh? Don’t take this remark too seriously though, I’m not pale faced, nor Brit or American.
I am also NOT saying Chinese progress is a joke, and I really don’t need to envy them. My country, as UK and US doesn’t have to fear anything and we really don’t need such a technological progress anymore… I hope this is not offensive too you.
All I wanted to point out was, that a) I didn’t really get your first post, you mentioned Han etc… and b) that Ming is, whatever you state, still a 60’s or 70’s technology based submarine and even with a better sonar and better armament, still a piece of old “junk”. That’ the short version of my previous posts, all the rest was just meant to play around a bit (also started by misinterpretation of your posts). The Bulk Carrier picture was just to make some publicity for my business, because it simply is quite unknown to the “world” aka Landlubbers. It was certainly not meant as an offense to you (which I think I made clear in that post too) nor to China.
Wanshan (G?), thanks for playing my advocate in my absense!
SeverodvinskSo, if I get it right, you just try to p!ss me off to get nice pictures???
You can always just ask! I’ll be glad to send them. I’m not p!ssed off though. 😀
My Worst Inner self really isn’t a ship in dry-dock 😎
You’re the one in the orange boilersuit, I’m the guy in the truck/ for interested people, one of the holds of a bulkcarrier, carrying wood from India to UK and Belgium.
Second picture, something China really lacks if it wants to kill subs, frigates with hull-mounted Sonars.
This ship was commented by a US officer as complete junk, yet, he said it was very capable to send after a submarine once that was located. The Hull mounted sonar had a very rapid fire-solution. Yet it has to operate in a fleet, because it can’t locate the sub from a very long distance.
SeverodvinskI won’t nodd then as you asked. Here, some more for you to think about:
From Scotsman.com
India to lease Russian nuclear submarine
PTI[ THURSDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2004 12:53:17 PM ]
MOSCOW: The Indian Navy will lease a Russian Akula-class nuclear submarine for 10 years, the Interfax-Military News Agency reported Thursday, citing a highly-placed Russian defense industry official.
The Nerpa (Ringed Seal) submarine (Nerpa is the procuction center, isn’t it? ) is being constructed at the Amur shipyards and should be ready by 2007, the report said.
The press service of the Russian state-controlled weapons export company, Rosoboronexport, said it had no information on a deal.
The unnamed official said that Russia and India had agreed on the leasing deal at the beginning of the year, Interfax reported. It cited independent experts’ estimates that the deal could be worth tens of millions of dollars a year.
Or not?
Itar tass:
Moscow: Russian Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov today (Oct 22, 2004) termed as “untrue” reports that India would lease for 10 years a nuclear submarine from Russia.
“I can assure you that the information about the submarine is not true,” Ivanov was quoted as saying by the ITAR-TASS news agency which yesterday reported about the deal.
Ivanov, who has been appointed new co-chairman of the Indo-Russian Intergovernmental Commission on Military-Technical Co-operation, said that during his New Delhi visit in January, no negotiations were held on submarines.
“We really had discussed very serious contracts in military-technical co-operation; in particular, a major contract for the supply of ‘Admiral Gorshkov’ aircraft carrier was signed. But there were no talks about submarines or their leasing,” he said.
ITAR-TASS and private Interfax news agencies, quoting ‘Defence industry sources’, yesterday reported about signing of the submarine deal earlier this year with India under which Russia was to lease Akula-II class multi-role nuclear submarine ‘Nerpa’, currently under construction at a shipyard in Komsomolsk-on-Amur in the Far East.
From BBC
Indian navy denies submarine deal
The Indian navy has denied reports that a deal has been finalised with Russia for the lease of an Akula-class nuclear-powered submarine.
Navy spokesman, Commander Vinay Garg, told the BBC talks were continuing between the two countries but no agreement was completed.
I hope you see the point by my little example of “stating this, stating that”. I think the Russians and Indians have in fact done it before me…
I admit there might be something going on, very obviously in fact. Yet on what and how, we (YES, INCLUDING YOU and ME) will have to wait for the deal to get finalised, officially announced and of course effectuated.
SeverodvinskI’m not at all knowing “better”, but I’m on the net for some time and I can tell you some very obvious streamings running around.
Bellona is a very independant “Greenpeace” kind of organisation, yet their subject handles a bit more secret things and hence it is much easier for them than for Greenpeace to make mistakes. I’m not saying I don’t make mistakes. But my stating this, stating that are as valuable as your reports, since they are also picked from the net. So, there is no way mine is better, I’m just saying you should be aware of this kind of things. Some of these “streams” I meant was this. When I entered the internet age and the internet community, I were about the only one really defending the Soviet/Russian stuff. Together with some very interested anthousiasts, like Jonesy, I learned lots of things about this equipment. But, I also learned lots of things about their use and certainly about the Soviet/Russian mentality towards these things.
Now, of course I wanted to defend Russia and certain people (Indian people that is) were interested in what I knew, since India was indeed receiving lots of Russian equipment. I was of course very eager to share my knowledge and started making some “promotion” for the gear. I had lots of opponents on this, they never wanted to believe me, saying the Russian things were crap etc etc. Now all of sudden, also partially by some other defenders of Russian gear, that seems to have turned, most Indians now seem to think Russian stuff is holy, partially I think, note me if I’m wrong, because India is receiving so much of it and doesn’t have too much alternatives concidering cost. Of course the guys that asked me are among them, since I-deliberately-left out some bad things about this stuff (weight, size, bad components etc.). Now they all seem to think it’s holy and unbeatable. I of course used to believe that too, and as much as I like the Russian Navy and equipment, even I have to admit now there are flaws in it, and sometimes quite large ones. But I won’t lie because of anything like this. All I have now thrown against your arguments in my last post, was/is supported and based on reports too.
You should also be aware of calling me a liar, dreamer or just saying I can’t know anything about that. Because later, you start doing the same and don’t accept me notifying that.
SeverodvinskI don’t think there are any pictures around, although I expected that of the Viyuga and Vodopad too. Yet it’s the ship-based version of the Kh-55 (iirc) air launched cruise missile.
Severodvinskneh, not without accidents…
All ships not participating in the exercises of last two years, are probably in this bad state. Some of them can be retrieved by some extra funding, but some are totally lost too (that’s a statement of Russian navy commanders). I don’t know to which group Lazarev belongs. I suppose it’s still ok…
SeverodvinskI don’t think you can believe all that sh!t. I’ve seen thirty different news articles, all taking some pieces of each other, afterwards adding some different things on this subject. It looks to me like they just see someone is writing about it and they all put some stuff together to get something in their paper too, just to be the first or at least not the last…
This comes from one too:
Besides the reduction in the number of submarines, there is no word yet on the lease of the four Tu-22M bombers, which are expected to give the Navy an entry into the country’s nuclear triad. But analysts expect an agreement on the bombers shortly.
An Indian crew is expected to receive advance training on an operational Akula-2, probably at Russia’s northern fleet headquarters of Severomorsk, an expert said. The Indian lease money will partly finance the completion of three to four Akula-II submarines under Project 971A.
This one seems to contradict yours that a crew has already been trained. It is also perfectly possible to block them from certain areas. If they would be onboard, that would mean that the submarine has a lot more crew and of course that they might have been on Vepr during that last exercise, which I doubt. Also, they only have 1 or two Akula IIs…
Little question, what is that statement in the thing I posted, reduction in submarines? For Russia? They weren’t to complete those anyway, unless later, to replace some older Akula or Victors, I don’t think it’s a reduction in number.
Hmm, you think Russky Telegraph is reliable? Weird, we hardly have a thought on what both of these ships (Severodvinsk and ATV) look like and yet someone has been capable of a) seeing the Russian blueprint and b) slipping into the Indian yards and viewing the building of one of the most secret Indian projects around… Sounds unlikely to me. Same for any internal sources, I don’t think any Indian builder or engineer would openly even suggest such a thing since it would make his country look weaker. And by knowing some Indians, I can say they would do everything to make sure that doesn’t happen.
As for Austin, it is known that China has nukes on Russia, why would Russia listen to China not to sell Kh-31 to US and to sell it to China?
What I basically wanted to say, was, that people that always suggest Russia would sell everything to just get some money, are quite wrong.
Indeed Russia has a cordial band with India, yet you shouldn’t underestimate them. The MiG-29 and Kilos got sold to a lot of countries. Chakra indeed was an exception. For the rest, Brahmos and 5th gen fighter might be true. The other projects you mentioned, I would like to see a proof of that. Nuclear co-operation is never openly proved, certainly not when it handles missiles and nuclear weapons. What you are saying about this cooperation in ATV etc. is speculation, as much as I speculated on Gorshkov (although my arguments will soon be supported/”proved” for you, yet again I ask you for some logic to add to the facts). And a billion articles from equally much Indian and Russian online papers that copy each other won’t do on this.
I see this is again a quite “weak” point for you guys, so I’ll just shut up and nodd yes, yes
SeverodvinskWell, this is what you see, when you carry such a new digital camo scheme suite and are located on a liferaft, just before you get crunched by a frigate:
Now, this is old crap, a subhunter frigate, without a helicopter and without towed array or VDS 😮 I wouldn’t want to be on it…
SeverodvinskGranit is SS-N-19 Shipwreck.
The other one you heard is Granat, the 3,000km-cruise missile, I think SS-N-21.
Severodvinsk😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😉 🙂 A very good one Arthur
SeverodvinskYes, we agreed on our ship, the worst way to commit suicide is by jumping overboard…
Although with this suit, you might succeed, maybe some kind of whale thinks your seaweed and swallows you. 😀
SeverodvinskLaid up means, floating somewhere on a quay, not in service, yet not out of service…
SeverodvinskWell, first of all, it’s not because you pay a lot that you will automatically receive EVERYTHING. Russia still has its own strategic concerns. They didn’t allow Shkval to get sold to Canada/US, nor did they allow the Kh-31 sale…
They will still conceal certain weapons and systems for you, not to mention their communications systems etc.
There’s also the question why they don’t give any of theirs…
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