RE: Question???????

I agree, its an excuse to attack Iraq – We are yet to see proof of Iraqi’s having WMD’s. Instead it should be N.Korea and Pakistan that should be in the US cross hairs- Pakistan being the country that has proliferated N. Weapons to N. korea in return for missile technology and now it seems they even offered the same to Iraq.

RE: Saving Private Ryan.

Ironic that this topic should come up ! Just saw the movie again last Saturday on HBO, my fourth time.

I remember having my hair on end when the SS guy stabbed the American soldier, i saw it for the first time in a theater and the AC was in full blast making me feel even more cold than usual.

Apart from that I loved the scene at the destroyed Radar station where they show the smoke coming out of the MG-42 and the clinking noise as the metal cools down. Great attention to detail. !!!!

I just love the sound the MG-42 in full automatic. What a fabulous weapon – Its still around as he MG-3 I think !!! I know the Pakistan army uses it.

And thanks for the translation of what the German guy is saying.

RE: WORLDS MOST POWERFUL NATIONS – 2003!!!

PW: with the exception of india and taiwan(japan not included because of their sensitive political position), no other country in the region can stand a chance even against china’s ’60s equipment equiped’ armed forces.

Sq: My dear friend China could not even beat Vietnam in the late 1970’s. A Vietnam that was exhausted and depleted by war. And please -China cannot hope to fight any small Asian country without the fear of the US, Australians and others intervening. Please don’t compare Chinese forces to small Asean nations, compare it to the US and Indians to which it has woefull shortcomings.

Pw: but india has pakistan to warry abt before it can even think abt china, so there is no theart there.

Sq: the threat is not there because both countries covertly accept the status quo with respect to the border disputes and both are sensible enough to concentrate on economic development as of now. But its silly to think that both country’s dont have border disputes. The seeds of the problem are right there.

Pw:taiwan is at the centre of china’s attention so far, and because of their small size, they cant hope to maintain superiorty for much longer. in fact, many expert would argue that although taiwanese forces are technically superior at the moment, china can already overwhelm the island if the americans dont interfer. and that china’s recent and future aquisitions are aimed purely at stopping the americans.

Sq: You know the US will never allow it and so only if China can take on the US – we can talk further.

Pw: also, u seem to have misunderstood the point that i was trying to make. china is upgrading it military, but because there is no real immediate threat, we dont have to go all out and re-equip the whole PLA overnight(nor can we). instead, china can and is focusing upon development of its economy. im sure we can all understand that a powerful nation is not just a nation with a few fancy toys in its military. the economy is much more important. just take japan for example. it doesnt have a very big armed forces, but because they are rich enough, they can build up one of the best equiped and biggest armed forces in the world should the need for it arrises.

Sq: I think what we started out discussing were the relative economic/ military strengths of India and China – I concede India’s economy is behind Chinas at the moment ( atleast as per the Chinese govt. figures ) – but its based on much more advanced and scientific foundations than China’s like Engineering Industries, IT services and software development. Chinas forex inflows are mainly out of cheap low-tech exports. Yes Chinas IT industry is growing fast, but India has a head start and is now THE destination for development work. Chinas forex inflows are mainly from overseas Chinese not MNC’s

PW:on the matter of forgine equipmment, well sure, china also buys weapons from russia, but we r also concentrating even more upon self development. we can now, or in a few year time, make almost all of the weapons that is used by the PLA with 0 forgine imports. can india make a similar claim?

Sq: Well I think you have a lot of reading to do on India’s arms capabilities. And please don’t tell me will the Chinese be making Su-27’s, Sovremmeny Destroyers and Kilo class subs without Russian help. ???? For starters the Russians will never allow you to do so, lest you become competitors to them.

Pw: having advanced forgine weapons can be a major ‘power up’ for any military, but relying too heavily on it can a big trap, just ask the argintinians.

Sq: Wrong analogy – India’s relationship with Russia is far greater than what Argentina had with France. We have been through 3 wars and never have the Russians let us down using even their veto powers to help India.

PW: india’s army’s experience level is debatable. fighting lightly armed garrilers is quite different from fighting well equiped and originised armies.

Sq: Wrong again – India fights daily with an organised and well equipped pak army in various terrain including the highest battlefields in the world, down to searing desert and Jungle terrain – It is perhaps the only army that has successfully beaten off various insurgencies over the last 30 years.

PW:as for china’s oil, well we r building a major pipeline to the russian oil fields, also, we have a major oil feild-daqing which can keep our military machine running for quite some time. but i dont hear of any major oil fields in india, maybe cos i dont take world geography , but if india really doesnt have an oil feild of its own, then i say china is more likely to cut india’s oil flow off.

SQ: CHINA LIKELY TO CUT OFF INDIA’s OIL— U do need that geography lesson. The Chinese navy will have to operate in the Arabian sea to do that. Right now it cant get out of the Taiwan Straits. BTW. India has large oil reserves off the Western coast. These are not being tapped as they are kept for emergency use only. Once the oil pipeline from Iran comes up, it will further negate any interdiction attempts.

PW: as for china’s irrliteracy rate,well i think im quite qualified to speak on that matter since i spent 4 years studying in china. out of a year of 300+ everyone can read, 2or 3 not very well, but they can read. also, i have never seen the same intensity of work done anywhere. i was bearly making it into the first 50 in school in china, but now i am in the top 10 in my school in england(out of a year of 600+!). so that speaks alot abt the standards of learning in china doesnt it? ps, the scholl im im england is one of the best in the city, not some crappy second rate nurser, so theres no need to try to find excuses there.

Sq: Well seeing your knowledge of English grammar and geography – Chinese education doesn’t look too hot to me ( sorry for the personal attack ) To put it in perspective The best technical and management institutes are in India. The largest number of technical graduates come from India – coupled with natural command over English – India scores over China here too. Not saying Chinese education is bad- i am sure it good and the Chinese are intelligent people – but India churns out more graduates that are better integrated into the world.

>Sq: Please spare me this BS. We have our moments of madness and bigotory, but to a huge extent >we are a very united nation, Take it from me I belong to a minority community in India and we live >pretty well contrary to what US or Brit news programs might tell you.
>PW: and the inheritent disadvantages of a democratic govenment will somewhat compramise its >national strength in times of war,
>BS: Wrong again, a democracy goes to war only if it is attacked or its people are behind an attack >on a foreign country. Public unrest only increases in police states like China and Pakistan when they >go to war as the people there feel they are being killed and made to suffer when no one asked their >opinions on going to war.

Pw:since u know first hand that the infomation provided by western news agencies can be unaccurate,

Sq: Not only inaccurate down right biased also – Here India and China suffer the same rubbish.

Pw: how could u still be so ignarent abt china?

Sq: Do you expect me to know mandarin and watch Chinese TV ?? or perhaps go through the Shanghai daily every morning ??

Pw: as u might know, 90+% of chinese support military action against taiwan if it declears independence, much higher then ‘western standards’. china’s leadership is not stupid, and they view economic growth as their number 1 priority, thats y china has always played ‘the gental giant’ role. we wont fight anyone unless we r attacked, or if there is terriorial dispute. in either case, chinese ppl will support the govenment all the way. trust me, alot of the chinese public are alot more hawkish then the leadership will ever be, so the world(including china) should be thankfull that we have a govenment strong enough to keep those ppl in line.

Sq: PW let me surmise, else we are going around in circles, China is a future superpower, but it is not yet one. China’s biggest problem is that it has scared off the US and the west because of its potential to be a rival to their power. Typically the west will build up a counter to China to inhibit it and that counter will be India – India is more than willing to be the devils advocate coz it hastens our progress and development. In which case in the short term you will see India’s economy boom and its armed forces really get better equipped.

Another big future problem for China is the million dollar question as to what will happen when the Chinese people will ask for more freedom in the governing of their daily lives?. How will the leadership handle that situation ? Will there be another Tianenmen square type massacre ? Will people be locked up like the Falun gong ? Will the armed forces give up control amicably ? That the people will ask for complete freedom and the right to choose their rulers is not a question of if but when. If China manages that change smoothly, it will be the most powerful nation in the world. If it doesn’t it will fall apart.

RE: APOCALYPSE RISING – A GLOBAL ANALYSIS

Apocalypse would mean the end of the world, so its immaterial as to where and who starts it as nobody could survive it. However, in my opinion a global scale apocalypse will not happen. I have enough faith in the survival instincts and selfishness of man- afterall that has transferred us from Cave dwellers into what we are today. We arent going to throw away millions of years of evolution for nothing.

I hope that i am right.

RE: WORLDS MOST POWERFUL NATIONS – 2003!!!

Plawolf:i think u have been watching too much US news squasher.

sq: dont we all mate, not much of a choice is there nowadays??

PW: as for the chinese armed forces, well they may not be armed with top of the range weapons, but what they got is more then adequite for doing their tasks. china doesnt have many enemies near our borders, so hight tech weapons will only just sit in wearhouses and become obsolete in a few years time.

sq:I disagree, China has potential / simmering enemies all around it, India, Vietnam, the Asean states that are not really eager to be in a Chinese orbit, that province ( i forget the name )bodering Afghanistan and Pakistan that is full of restive muslims, Tibet, Taiwan and lets not forget a US strategice policy that sees China as a threat to it and therefore will do its best to ensure that China is kept in its place. Lets not forget Chinas prosperity is not reaching its interior regions, nobody knows what those people think, feel, suffer, how long will they tolerate this lack of freedom. To say that China doesnt need modern weapons and can rely on 1960’s technology and tactics is wrong.

PW:the only real threat of an actual armed conflict comes form the taiwan strait, but the few select unites that r armed with advanced weapons will be enough to take out taiwan’s defences. the real problem is if the us gets involved, thats y china is still pouring so much into defence.

SQ: It may thir immediate threat, but as I mentioned, it certainly is not their only one. And of course the US will get involved, the Chinese know that, else there would have been no Taiwan now.

PW: india on the other hand, does have very well armed and experienced armed forces, but they rely too much upon forgine equipment and r small in numbers,and so may not have the ability to win a large scale, high attribution conflict.

sq: Well Chinas new equipment is also foreign- so whats your point. and what is the problem with foreign weapons ??. India has reliable partners in Russia so supply and embargoes from them are never a problem. India has arguably a better R&D and Industrial base as against China. Indian forces small !!! Please check up your facts I think the Indian army is the 3rd or 4th largest in the world. Please dont forget Chinas jugular is its oil supply from the middle east which has to pass through indian waters. Chinas navy is under no position to avoid the threat of interdiction by the Indian Navy. here is a huge trump for India in case of a conflict. As regards wars of attrition, India has been fighting terrorism from across its borders for the last 20 years. We have grown stronger not weaker in that time period.

PW: also, india’s illiteracy rate and number of ppl under the poverty line is much higher then that of china’s.

Sq: How can you positively say that ? how does anyone know what goes on in China ? you get only the figures the Chinese Government wants you to see. As regards technicians india has the largest pool of technical manpower in the world – not to forget almost 100% of Indian graduates and 65 % of its Urban population speak English – a huge advantage over their Chinese counterparts. Something MNC’s want as mandatory before investing in a country. India is today no. 2 in the world in software development.

Pw: this, together with the unstable internal religous climate

Sq: Please spare me this BS. We have our moments of madness and bigotory, but to a huge extent we are a very united nation, Take it from me I belong to a minority community in India and we live pretty well contrary to what US or Brit news programs might tell you.

PW: and the inheritent disadvantages of a democratic govenment will somewhat compramise its national strength in times of war,

BS: Wrong again, a democracy goes to war only if it is attacked or its people are behind an attack on a foreign country. Public unrest only increases in police states like China and Pakistan when they go to war as the people there feel they are being killed and made to suffer when no one asked their opinions on going to war.

PW: and so i disagree with u putting india above china on the list.

sq: U are entitled to your opinion, I dont agree with you though.

PW:i dont know much abt the french, but they do have a very good defence infrastructure(the only euopean country to develop a 4th/4and a half gen fight by itself. also good missile and warship developments), so i would question but not argue abt its position.

SQ: I dont get your point, who would you have instead of them. I put them second only because apart from the US they are the only country that seems to have the best balance of all the factors that make up a world power.

RE: What Invention Could You Not Live Without?

Electricity – everything depends on it.

and my Car.

RE: WORLDS MOST POWERFUL NATIONS – 2003!!!

>Good hypothesising Squasher, but I’d say Russia suffers from
>the same police (well, mafyia) state syndrome as China and
>is also inward looking (Chechnya, North Ossetia) Their
>experience of being a past superpower, plus being led by one
>of the shrewdest leaders (Putin) cancel this out a bit, but
>they are no way so high in the power leagues.

Like you mentioned Mongu its all hypothetical and the ranking is not based on all considered factors. Yes the Russians are stuck in the Chechen quagmire, but I feel they are a much more free society than China, certainly the people have more democratic choice than China – apart from Chechnia and N. Ossetia they dont face any further threats of Balkanisation. But I agree on current rankings i may have been a bit too generous to them. But I must say they are a country with a trmndeous future.

Also, the
>French are good in theory but they have absolutely no
>history of being determined in warfare. Unlike Germany of
>course.

Mongu, I agree that history has proven that Germans and Brits may be better soldiers than the French, but lets not forget not long ago the French had the second largest empire after Britain, and unlike Britain under Napoleon they conqured almost all of Western Europe almost till Moscow- which in his days was an even greater achievement than Hitlers. Further Modern warfare is not about fixing bayonets and closing ranks, its a lot about having better technology and tactics. As far as the former goes, the French are right up there.

for Keltic

Keltic,

Why dont you like Flamenco ?- I think its a brilliant dance form and so is Spanish music. !!