Long shot but could be Merlin/Griffon
That Binbrook map must be an older collection of photographs as the Q shed still has its concrete apron, which has been gone now for some years.
OK – a few answers to questions!
Firstly, yes, the Venom is a bit tailheavy – there are bloomin great weights fitted up front to counteract the weight of the engine.
The engine is fitted on the centreline, but a good bit of the weight is aft of the CofG
The wooden pod goes to the front of the engine cowls – the engine is mounted off the centre section spars.
So – would it be possible to re-engine a Venom? Yes, don’t see why not. However, the value of the bird with a Ghost is only around £30K flying, maybe a tad more. However much would it cost to re-engine one? I dont even want to think about that one!
Bruce
Many thanks Bruce!
wouldve thought the asking price flyable wouldve been a bit higher than that!
Ok heres the list and a little background on them each
Peter Hookway bought 12 Canberras from the RAAF, most being struck off charge on the day of sale 12/04/1972, although some had been in storage for up to 4 years prior to the sale, he returned 5 aircraft to flight status at Amberley and had them flown down to Essendon by former ARDU test pilot and Canberra veteran Barry Wilson, two examples were donated to Amberley for display and the remaining 5 non-flyers broken down for road transport to Essendon, where at least two were re-assembled, the rest being cannibalised for spares.
Peter Hookway apparently intended originally to onsell the flyable aurcraft and spares to the Bolivian AF but for unknown reasons this never came to fruition and the aircraft languished at Essendon with the first being scrapped in the early 1980’s and the last gone by 1989.
Flying examples were all B.Mk20’s:
A84-209, First Flight 21/09/54, Delivered 11/54, Storage from 12/68, Struck Off Charge 12/04/1972,
This was apparently the 1st to fly to Essendon sometime between 1972 and 1975, all Canberras that flew to Essendon used call sign VH-PTQ, Scrapped but cockpit still extant at Camden Aviation Museum.
A84-212, FF 22/11/54, Delivered 08/12/54, SOC 19/11/71, Sold 12/04/72,
Flew in sometime between 1972 an 1975, this was the one that had the Hookway Aviation logo on the tail and “Hookway Aviation” on the nose in blue, Scrapped but components reported to have ended up in the UK.
A84-217, FF 04/04/55, Delivered 27/04/55, SOC 19/11/71, Sold 12/04/72, Flew in sometime between 1972 and 1975, Scrapped 11/1981.
A84-218, FF 25/05/55, Delivered 21/06/55, SOC 19/11/71. Sold 12/04/72, Scrapped.
A84-227, FF 23/03/56 after extensive rework to repair faulty mainplane, Delivered 27/04/56, Storage 18/12/68, SOC 19/11/71, This was the last Canberra to be built with Avon Mk.1’s prior to the upgrade to RA.7/Mk.109’s, it was part of the 5 Canberra goodwill trip to the USA in May/June 1956, where it suffered an engine failure on takeoff from Hickman AFB resulting in a wheels-up landing shortly afterward, was dismantled in situ and shipped back to Australia for major repairs and did not flay again until 1959, it had corrosion work in late 1965 before going into storage, flew into Essendon between 1972 and 1975, Scrapped.
Others known to have been bought by Hookway and trucked to Essendon were:
A84-216, FF 15/03/55, Delivered 04/04/55, SOC 19/11/71, Sold 12/04/72,
trucked to Morwell and scrapped in 1989.
A84-221, FF 12/08/55, Delivered 30/08/55, SOC 19/11/71, Sold 12/04/72, another of the “Goodwill 5”, trucked to Morwell and scrapped in 1989.
A84-222, FF 16/08/55, Delivered 01/09/55, SOC 19/11/71, Sold 12/04/72,
trucked to Morwell and scrapped in 1989, Cockpit section bought by Moorabbin Air Museum.
A84-224, FF 19/10/55, Delivered 24/04/56, SOC 19/11/71, Sold 12/04/72,
Another of the “Goodwill 5”, this one had an orange band painted around the rear fuselage and a placard next to the crew door to signify a +2G limitation during its final months of service due to fatigue, trucked to Morwell and scrapped in 1989, cockpit still extant in Dennison.
Enjoy!
To the kind of people who restore and maintain classic warbirds or design new aircraft, it’s not an overwhelming job. It’s another engineering job. Sure… the certification issues would just about rule it out in UK/Europe. If it was done it’s likely to happen in USA.
I was thinking more of using an engine like the Williams J44 . A centrifugal engine like the Ghost/Nene/Goblin is very large for it’s thrust, and leaves a big space to design in an adaptor for mounting the engine. I suspect there might be problems with the intake geometry, and then the tail pipe would need work. J44 is already retrofitted in the Saab 105 (ex J85)
Less thrust than the original would be compensated by the weight saving. The J44 is about 1/3 of the weight of a Ghost, and the lower fuel consumption would require less fuel to be carried. The weight saving is also the killer, though (at least in a Venom)…. The Ghost looks like it is aft of the aircraft C of G. A much lighter engine would make a Venom nose heavy.
In this case it’s probably a non-runner, but I don’t think the idea of turbofan conversions for some classic jets should be ruled out quite so easily.
Oh im not ruling such a conversion out, merely pointing out that it is an effective re-design of the aircraft, the C of G issue is just another part of the difficulties one would face doing such a conversion, and id say for the very reasons we have discussed already is mosy likely why no-one has yet attempted it.
on the C of G i believe that Venoms are a little tail heavy, although Bruce would have a far better idea of that than i do, so it would possibly not be as big an issue on the C of G front as i first thought.
The FJ44 would be a good choice i think, if of course things like intake capacity of the inlets are sufficient ect, id say due to the close proximity of the tailplane to the exhaust flow that an afterburning engine would not be suitable, ruling out the more powerful members of the J-85 family, 1 more issue i would suppose could be a potential problem is heat, as id assume that the J-85/CJ610 and FJ-44 run much hotter than the Ghost does, which may come into play with the wooden structures of the fuselage pod.
brilliant!
I would think the j85 would be ideal. Arent the new-build ME-262s powered by j85s?
CJ610’s i believe, civillian derivative of the J-85
Also the Ghost 103 puts out around 5,000lb at max power, a J-85 needs afterburner to make the same output.
Unlikely – the wooden fuselage pod is almost completely destroyed, especially around the carry through spar area. Added to the damamge to the wings caused by the gear being ripped out – I think this is one for the scrap pile sadly.
A great shame.
Bruce
A great shame indeed, hopefully something might be salvaged from her though.
To Speedy, re-engining something like a Venom with its centrifugal flow turbojet to a more modern axial flow engine such as say a J-85 or CJ610 (i am aware of the lower thrust output between these and the Ghost, just used as an example) would be a massive engineering undertaking at best, to say nothing of the difficulties in getting such extensive mods approved by the relevant aviation authority.
Greetings Stormbird!
i know the Essendon Canberras quite well and ill post up theyre s/n’s here shortly, power is looking a bit dodgy at the moment so ill be signing off until later.
P.S love to know if and where any of those Avons might be now!
Also much thanks to buccsociety for the update on the PR.9s, hopefully at least one of them will fly again!
With a bit of creative thought a F.8 should all go on a 40 foot flatbed. This machine really deserves to be preserved in the U.K and indoors .
As its originally an RAAF aircraft id personally love to see it out here, although i could afford the aircraft itself theres no way id be able to afford the transport costs 🙁
Has anyone heard anything about this? I read mention of engine trouble and then came across a pic of a replacement port outboard engine being installed. Then I came across mention of a flight test and after 5 mins she landed back with the p.o prop feathered. Hope it is a quick fix!!!:confused:
hopefully its just a glitch that can be put to bed without too much bother!
Im putting together a 1:48 Hunter in RAAF markings using the serial prefix (A86 – was to be for the P.1081) that they may have used had the entered RAAF service, ill chuck up a couple of pics when its done
they were retired from service in 1993… and survivors were sold between 1994-1995 to private hands from USA… check This out
Last bolivian sabres flight line (year 1991) pic by: A.Camazanoregards.-
Alberto.-
Many thanks Alberto!
Thread was deleted as it degraded into personal attacks and had gotten way off topic.
and rightly so
Anyone have any info on when the Bolivian AF F-86’s went out of service?
havent had much luck with finding anything on the interweb other than what i already knew, that they wew still in service in the mid to late 1980’s, surely they must have run out of hours by now?