Chromsuperb post there friend, I agree 2800 odd dead for taking a country and removing its goverment historically unmatched by anyone anywhere, and it only took 3 odd weeks to accomplish too which was extraordianry by any standards of warfare. Most people have this media created imaage of western troops bogged down in a ‘quagmire’ (there favourite word) when infact things couldnt be further from the truth. Whilst main stream media plays is quagmire record over and over the enemy are weakened to the point that all they can do is try and impress fear onto the population in a vain hope that will win back there power and now they have realised that they are trying to create a civil war. Hilarious really how people say the terrorists are winning! whining yes winning no. Zarq has been effectivally demoted too incase anyone is wondering what happened to him – AQ thought he was fcking it all up. HAHAHA
Soviets lost about 500 ppls during first phase Afganistan invasion and new goverment installation. Later they was losing about 1200 soldiers a year – against an army of at least MILLION mujahedeens backed by whole world – USA, China, Europe. With newest weapon supplies, with best foreign instructors, with direct support from abroad bases (Pakistan). Now compare it with Iraq FF… with ****ty 30-years old chinese RPG-7 and 35-years old Strela-2 with expired storage… USA like to say what only “less than 10 thousands terrorist” operate in Iraq. Yet they loses are that high…
Let me say clear – i dont care if USA attack Iran. In fact, it will be only good for my country. But its the same kind of “good” as 1000$ what you recive from a mafia for your closing eyes and your deaf ears.
ChromWe have no ‘red phone’ between Jerusalem and Tehran as Moscow and Washington had. This is a different situation entirely. We’re not facing a responsible, strong and cold blooded leader, we are facing a lunatic, ultra orthodox, non-democratically elected leader. He could care less about the Palestinians, the Iranians and certainly the Jews, AKA ‘sons of pigs and apes’, and wouldn’t hesitate for a second when given the chance to execute You should be ashamed of yourself.
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And no, nothing you’ll say about Israel, justified or not, true or lie, can be your excuse for supporting a mass murder.
These are exactly arguments what was pronounced during cold war by the West against USSR (bloody communist what eat childrens for lunch and dont care about own ppls), and these arguments almost lead to all-earth nuclear war. As its later turned out, USSR goverment wasnt “lunatic, ultra orthodox, non-democratically elected leaders” any more than any other West goverment by that time. Dont make that mistake again.
ChromIs there SOLID prove Iran wants nuclear weapons? Or is it another propaganda attempt by the US?
Given current USA oil-land-grab-happy politic, any country in they sane mind would want A-Bomb. Simply as that.
ChromAsk Mc Arthur about that, when PRC troops entered Korea in autum 1950.
Israel had, but that was balanced by the former SU.
With the end of the SU for over a decade there is no longer a Russian warranty for deterence.
Even the both countries given by you are do still prepare for such. Even before that atomic-bombs non tried to reach a total defeat of the other. The border skirmishes are still alive.
The one who will use an A-Bomb first will run into real trouble by that. Despite having A-Bombs the USA lost the Vietnam-War and the SU the Afghanistan war. When it comes to the Super-Powers such a use may claim suiced. At least the lesson learned from 1962.
Yuop. Border skirmishes… you said. That. Its true, A-Bomb WILL NOT make Iran win in Iran-Bolivia war. But it will definitily save Iran in case of Iran-Irak, Iran-Israel, Iran-USA etc. war. In any war, where whole existence of Iran is endangered. That its also true for every other country – A-Bomb didnt saved USA from defeat in Vietnam( btw, some dickheads here like to say what USA actually won there), but it saved USA and Europe from USSR (and vice versa, it saved USSR from USA and Britan)
P.S. Yes, Mc Arthur this, Mc Arthur that.. there are always ill-head peoples. Sometimes they are even generals. Thank god, 99% generals and politicans are not such. India and Pakistan can prepare all what they want – the fact is however is what they endless war HAVE ended. Generals on both sides have understood what they cant win any big war, and winning border skirmishes with like 500 soldiers involved from each side is not for generals, its for leutinants. Thats why we now see relaxation in India-Pakistan relation despite military dictature in Pakistan and raising self-confindence in India.
ChromWhen did a A-Bomb prevent a direct invasion?! Not in Korea 1950 or in Israel 1973. Cuba does not have A-Bombs today and the USA is not intrested to invade there, because to similar reasons like NK.
You like to forget that France signalled Iran the use of atomic-weapons. So do not blame the Europeans. Related to the scale of death and damage the A-bombs over Japan did not differ from the fire-bombs attacks against Tokio.
Hmm?? Korea had A-bomb in 1950? Thats new to me. When did Korea lost this A-Bomb?
Israel? They really had it? Cuba? You know – there was a little tiny country on the map – it was called something like USSR. This little known country had someting to do with obviously unknown to you Caribic crisis. We can also remember India and Pakistan with they endless little war untill they both got A-Bomb.
ChromAn A-bomb really?! North Korea is an bad example. It is no problem for the USA to finish it militarily. But that is one part of such task only. After that the USA have to pay for the costs to rebuilt such toppled country with millions of brainwashed people. Not even South-Korea is intrested into a unification under such conditions and the USA much less intrested in such related outlays. As long as NK does not pose a real threat to the security of the USA really, nothing will hapen there. With some A-Bombs there or not!
South Africa had A-Bombs too, but it did not prevent the regime their to topple! The Ukraine is another example.
Dont mix direct invasion and “color revolutions”. We can also say what the largest military in the world didnt saved USSR from revolution. A-Bomb is only a help for strong goverment, as nothing can save weak goverments. In NK case politcal consequences of even 1 nuclear explosion in western world is too unacceptable for american elite. It would lead to goverment collapse in USA and completely lost support (or, better to say, strong opposition) by Europe.
Chromi get the feeling they do have superpower backers, China and Russia, also what other allies do the Iranians have that may contibute in one way or another, Old Hugo Chavez down in Venezuela, the Norks maybe? i’m sure its allies will .
Its not something we call “backers”. They are merery an opposition to USA, but they will NOT help Iran at they own expence. What is a true “backing” ? Vietnam, Egypt, Syria, both Korea’s, Israel – all these coming in mind. In all these cases HUGE arms supplies was given to respective countries without much payback. Not something Russia or China willing to do with Iran. Such uneconomical help can be driven only by strong ideological motives, and there are none in Iranian case. Both Russia and China will help Iran only as much as it pays off, and let me tell you, Iran cant pay more than it have.
ChromIf I realy was Iran and my only interest was self-defence, I would invest all I could in S-400, S-300VM, Pantsir, Mig-31BM, and the most advanced Su-30 derivative I could get my hands on. Combined with long range anti-ship missiles, GLCM’s, and ballistic missiles (conventional warheads) to launch strikes against US ships and bases in theatre. At the same time subtly keeping the Iraqi insurgency going to keep US ground forces occupied.
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If i really was Iran and my only interest was self-defence, i wouldnt anger USA in the first place without USSR backing me up. No amount of S-300, S-400, Black Eagles or Dark Scorpions will save me from superpower – except another superpower. They cant even inflict much damage with all these goodies. If i really want to be safe from superpower, A-Bomb is the only way to go.
Chromyeah i think mig 31’s would be a very good aircraft to try and bring a B-2 down. but the chances of having the Mig CAP actually run into a B-2 would be slim i’d imagine for the reason that as soon as the migs are up there ELINT or something else like an Awacs will know about – that info then datalinked staright to the B-2 which then simply slinks on past them on a differant route. Maybe just pull all your assets around Tehran and try to turn it into some kind of fortress but we all saw how well that didnt work for Saddam so maybe not.
Ok, lets assume long wave radars can see it. Lets also assume its night becouse by daylight it would be zero problems to shot it down with any fighter or old SAM with TV guidance. So, its night. Obviously, your best bet is some kind of night googles or FLIR. There is also good chance to lock it from behind with radar – but powerfull jamming might prevent stable lock. Keeping in mind what all modern frontline USSR fighters by the end of 80x had IRST, they should be able to find and lock such big target as B-2, especeally at night when earth is cold and there is no sun.
P.S. Iranians have very little chances to shot it down – they most common SAM’s are S-75 & S-125. These are completely ineffective against modern jamming and can rely only on TV guidance. Also, they have exremely limited range. Iranians also cant use fighters for obvious reason – any fighter will be spoted the second its taked off. Yugoslavian Mig’s are good example what happens in this case…
ChromCan the Tu-160s also be used in the anti-shipping role as the Tu-22Ms?
Theoreticaly, yes. But they are even worse at that role than Tu-22M3. They dont carry special anti-ship missiles, and they dont have special targetting complex. Tu-160 was designed for only one role – intercontinental bomber with nuclear cruise missiles.
ChromOne of the best films I’ve seen in recent years was Downfall. A German / US production with genuine German actors, speaking German with English subtitles.
The film is definitly the best Hollywood movie about Russian fleet / army. Still it has about some relation to USSR reality as “Top Gun” movie to real USAF.
ChromIsn’t that introduction in service of a new, complex aircraft actually a false coming back? How can a country in the same time have a pretty lousy state of the things in operational regiments, but to introduce a new tipe into service?
Becouse Russia must maintain its construction buro and manufacturing capabilities. Its very easy to destroy them, but facking hard and expencive to build up again. Anyway, 24 Su-34 in 5 years is NOT something i would call big procurement. Most money are spend on nuclear forces, new SSBN, new strategic missiles, and SAM’s. Army and AF get money only for surviving, not for purchasing new weapon.
Chrom@firebar
How should the R-40 track a SR-71 with a RCS= 0,012m2 with “re-entrant triangles”?
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Omg, thats one of the best exxageration i’ve ever seen. If SR-71 have so low RCS, when explain why old rusty S-200 can track it from at least 300km away? If S-200 have such great radar, then surery it can track F-22 from at least 150km distance…
Chromthe only new MIG-29 price is MIG-29K for $45m in 2004.
it does not include PESA and TVC. the rest is just speculation.
Thats probably including all gooddies like weapon, TOT licence and pilot training. Plus deep IA costumization of course. I can also point to Arabian F-16 with 80+ million $ price tag…
P.S. Algerian Mig-29 will cost about 30-35 millions depending how they count “returned back” Mig-29 what Algeria give to Russia.
ChromIt is a myth that new built MIG-29s are cheaper than F-teen series with same level of advancement.
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Mig-29SMT/SMT2 is useally quoted at 30 mil $. Mig-29 with PESA and OVT useally quoted with 35 mil $ at most. Try to find F-16 and F-18 with such prices…. Nobody said what new Mig-29 is cheap. But certainly *cheaper* than new F-series.
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