3 R-37Ms in the rear three belly postions

I went back and looked at some R-37 close-ups under the MiG-31M, and you might be on to something. The rear three weapons are carried in a nose-up aspect, and their location provides clearance for a booster section even if it is of slightly increased diameter. The only issue might be ground clearance on takeoff, depending on how large the booster is.

Adding SARH to an otherwise ARH missile would not really benefit the weapon very much

It might be SARH for midcourse homing. The launch aircraft could retain radar lock on the targets and have the missile home in during midcourse using SARH. That might be a more accurate form of midcourse guidance against low-RCS targets like cruise missiles. It also allows the more complex ECCM algorithms in the radar to deal with any jamming or interference to retain lock on the target. OK, that last part didn’t come out right, but whatever. If they mean a choice between SARH and ARH in terminal homing mode, then it may again have to do with target RCS. If the target cannot be adequately tracked by the ARH seeker, it can go to SARH mode. If the missile looses lock, it can also go to SARH mode to get the target back.

Well the original purpose of the R-37 was competition to the KS-172 for ultra long range AAM.

No…the R-37 was developed for the MiG-31M. The KS-172 came later, and the KS-172S-1 later still.

The R-37 is not a new weapon development wise, nor is the KS-172 or the R-77 etc.

Which doesn’t change the fact that it was never intended to be carreid by the Yak-41…

Signal strength alone will give an indication of range and a precise direction, the R-37M and KS-172 were developed for the same requirement… they are the S-32/Mig 1.42/1.44 of ULRAAMs. Using a lofted flight profile there is no reason to think that during its flight it could triangulate the distance to the target based on the angle to signal at launch and angle to signal at cruise operating height. It makes rather more sense to use a vertical triangle for that calculation as the target is more likely to be changing horizontal position (ie flying circuits) than changing height.

The R-37M may very well be a pasive homing weapon, it is said to have a detachable booster giving a range of 400km. That feature would have been incompatible with MiG-31M carriage, making the R-37M the likely competitor with the KS-172, if there was one at all.

The R-33 is the only dual phase radar homing missile in Russian AF service. In other words a radio silent cruise phase followed by an active target marked phase. Adding SARH to an otherwise ARH missile would not really benefit the weapon very much unless you didn’t trust its ability to select its target effectively when it gets to the last phase of its attack.

The baseline R-33 has SARH terminal homing, not ARH.

I say we let the EU handle this one 😀

SOF in Iran? From Afghanistan?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/06/29/us.iran/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

What is this guy smoking…I’m not saying that the idea of SOF in Iran is unthinkable, but the way he thinks they got into the country makes no sense at all. You can get within 80 miles of Shiraz without entering SAM coverage, and the terrain would make detection difficult, but the distance involved seems way too far. You won’t be able to use helo insertion, and an aircraft like the C-130 would be a far easier target to locate even at low altitude. Also, staying outside SAM coverage doesn’t mean you aren’t flying through an EW radar network, either. About the only thing SOF can give you that an orbital or aerial intel platform can’t is on-site intelligence, and I don’t think that even the US is quite that bold. Just imagine what happens if one of the SOF guys is captured, then what? The likely story, if the funding part is true, is that SOF guys have trained Iranian dissidents in Afghanistan before they re-enter Iran to gather information. That seems like a far more plausible explanation than the line Hersh is trying to feed us.

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080619/111323021.html

Thanks. Found it in Google Earth 😀

I would expect that because they have said all along that the R-37M would be part of its weapons options that the design of the weapon bay would take it into account.

Where are they talking about the R-37 for the PAK-FA?

The makers of the missile described it as designed for use with all Russian upgraded and next gen fighters.

But that doesn’t include the Yak-41 most likely, as that was a comparatively ancient project. Doubt it had the weight ratings to carry the R-37 underwing anyway…

The Alamo was fully modular and was designed from the start to have different homing heads and motor options. The “new” homing options were the ones for use over water (for the Su-33 and presumably Mig-29K) and the active radar homing model that weren’t anticipated when the weapon was first developed AFAIK.

I think some of the 80’s studies trying to anticipate the FLANKERs that the ATF would be dealing with projected an AMRAAM-type ALAMO derivative.

Use in the anti AWACs role doesn’t require a radar lock before launch. Any aircraft able to lift the weapon could conceivably use it… even a Yak-130, though obviously it wouldn’t be like a Phoenix on a Tomcat, more like an extended range anti radar Kh-31 on a Yak-130.

The R-37 needs midcourse guidance and has to have an idea where the target is before firing. You could blast a KS-172 towards where you think an AWACS is located without onboard cueing as it is a passive homing weapon, but the R-37 is not. Given that it has a dual mdoe seeker, SARH/ARH, it may require SARH midcourse guidance even.

They might fit an ARH seeker to an R-33 for export purposes so as not to give away the R-37 too soon.

Might be an idea. Some people describe the R-33S as having a dual mode SARH/ARH seeker similar to that on the R-37, so the work may already be done.

Most of the stuff I have read regarding new gen weapons for PAK-FA describe long, medium and short range weapons… R-37M, R-77M, and R-74 respectively.

But are they mentioning the R-37M by name?

Yeah, the Russians are behind in Radar technology… is that why American congressmen want to incorporate Russian radars into a new system to look for earth collision asteroids? If American radars are generations ahead surely they’d want the best eyes on the ball.

What radars? Krona? I haven’t heard this one before.

Sukhoi will be working either with the R-37M or the KS-172 as a 400km range AAM for the PAK-FA.

They should work on something new, based on the ramjet R-77. The KS-172 is huge and external carriage obliterates your LO characteristics. The R-37M isn’t much smaller and may not fit internally either.

The R-37 was originally to be fitted to all new generation Russian fighter upgrades (ie Mig-29SMT, Su-27M, Yak-41 etc).

Nothing out there linking the R-37 to the Yak-41 as far as I know, but it was mentioned with the MiG-29SMT all over the place. The K-37M was the weapon mentioned in conjunction with other aircraft programs, but the R-37 was to be carried by the MiG-31M and that was it. It seemed that Sukhoi’s plan for a long-range weapon for the original Su-35 was to have been either the KS-172’s first version or an air-launched 9M96 derivative.

Remember it was revealed that the passive radar homing ARM model of the R-27 series was in service for quite some time before its existence was revealed… they still have some secrets.

You mean before it was displayed and offered for export. We knew it existed for quite some time (ALAMO E and F) but there were no open-source images available. Same thing with the R-33S. We know its out there, but I don’t think it’s ever been seen publicly either.

Once the PAK-FA starts entering full scale development moving towards production the R-37M will start to be deployed on other aircraft too (in addition to the Mig-31M).

The Su-35 is probably the only aircraft that’ll actually be able to support the R-37 outside of the PAK-FA and MiG-31BM. I doubt a MiG-29 would be able to effectively use it given the shorter range of the FULCRUM radar systems. Russia appears to have blown off the SMT upgrade though, so that may be a moot point.

I doubt they would bother with the R-33 except for export. The R-37 might be popular for export too though.

The R-37 would probably make a far better export product than the R-33. SARH missiles are pretty much obsolete by now.

Rubbish. The R-37M is planned for use with the PAK-FA and will likely be added to the Su-27BM for that very reason. It might even be added to the Mig-29SMT and Mig-35 if they adopt them.

Are we sure the R-37M is actually slated for the PAK-FA?

Amusing recently that with the North Koreans dismantling their nulcear power plants the US has removed them from the list of nations supporting foreign terrorism. Isn’t that pretty clear proof that being on that list in the first place is just a tool to punnish a country with sanctions that they can’t otherwise justify?

I think that was one of the concessions from the 6 Party Talks, actually. Besides, look at Cuba. We don’t need to put someone on a list to have a completely nonsensical international relationship with them :rolleyes: