dark light

TooCool_12f

Forum Replies Created

Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 3,094 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • in reply to: 2017 F-35 news and discussion thread #2126161
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    well, that way they won’t have to think about it and eventually change their mind (and possibly ask for some heads from the side of those who decided to buy it? πŸ˜‰ )

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2126357
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    Not once you integrate …

    the beggining of your answer says it all… it’s the same Typhoon story since 30 years.. “once you integrate [add the thing you wanted to have yesterday]…”

    and when you know that lots of times it was Germany itself who dragged its feet to finance the developments that were needed, you can realize why it will lag behind forever..

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015 #2126878
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    on the other hand, how many things states agree upon and do not apply…

    in reply to: Canadian Fighter Replacement #2127244
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    er, australian hornets are just a stopgap measure… to be used until the replacement is there (should equip their service ,say, some 10-15 years from now)… they don’t intend to keep them beyond that

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127284
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    Libya wasn’t high threat period and no the reason for the Rafale going in early had nothing to do with its ability to penetrate the antiquated, poor trained and maintained Air defence system of a country going through a civil war.

    why was it alone in doing so? why no other nation went in until the cruise missiles destroyed most of that “antiquated, poor trained and maintained Air defence system of a country going through a civil war. ” ?

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127304
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    Neither of those countries has operated in a high threat environment for the last 25 years and the Rafale has never operated in that environment operationally.

    While Libya wasn’t exactly the highest threat environment one could find, fact is that the Rafale went in on the first day (and not even low level) while everybody else (meaning, everything NATO countries had in store except the F-22) waited until the defenses were weakened through cruise missiles strikes before going in… maybe the threat level wasn’t so low as one may have thought, after all…

    There is nothing inherent in the Eurofighter design that would prevent it from being a viable replacement for low level penetration.

    having no capability for terrain following, it was to do with the pilot’s Mk1 eyeball sensor to avoid hitting something… it may do well on a nice and clear day, but in bad weather or by night, I woudn’t bet so much on it…

    I agree that politically Germany acquiring/operating the Rafale would be a death sentence for future Eurofighter exports but no one outside the Middle East and sub-continent is buying either anyway so the point is somewhat moot.

    not so moot for as long as they keep trying to sell it πŸ˜‰ …

    btw, they also have to “sell” the idea of it being useful to the german public opinion as well πŸ˜‰

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127333
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    no neeed to go once more through the “utility of low level” discussion…

    To the claim that “rafale doesn’t bring anything particular to the table”, the answer is “for Tornado replacement, it does”… If you have to go deep into contested airspace (GAF wants deep strike capable bird) you have to go low or be stealth… Rafale does it by going low.

    Your opinion may be that it’s not valuable, the two nations doing most wars over foreign countries are the USA (they chose stealth for deep strike) and french (they made the Rafale). Typhoon was not made to do that and that’s the main difference that is definitely important when one speaks about replacing the Tornado. Will they buy the rafale? NO, they won’t even consider it. Not because it doesn’t bring anything valuable to the table but rather because it does and it’s not politically (and commercially asthey still try to sell the Typhoon) a viable solution for them

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127351
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    Fact is, we speak about the aircraft that would replace the Tornado (who has it) in missions for Tornado (strike, with deep penetration in mind).. be it for nuclear or conventional delivery, deep strike into enemy territory in contested airspace would require either the level of equipment and numbers that only USAF can have, or you’d have to be able to go in “unseen”.. stalthy and/or low level.. Something what the Rafale has been designed for from the beginning

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127360
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    – Rafale is hardened for nuclear delivery, Typhoon is not.. that one alone would require a lot of rework and testing on electronics
    – Rafale has a fully automated (and proven) system for terrain following (can be useful when you have to strike deep in enemy territory) while, at the same time, it can scan the skies for threats or targets (thank you AESA), Typhoon I struggle to find a terrain following function for the Captor

    to start with.. when one thinks that we speak about Tornado replacement, these capabilities aren’t exactly “futile”

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127398
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    The Rafale offers nothing that Germany can’t get out of a Eurofighter

    er, wrong.. but in the present case it’s besides the point… the main (and only real reason) is political

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127418
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    what’s more, they want the leadership in future german-french fighter.. it may be complicated to start negotiations like:

    – “ok, you, alone, did a better job then four of us on the last one, so, why not let us lead the program for the next fighter?”

    – “er, you’re serious?” :confused:

    :highly_amused:

    in reply to: What will Germany replace The Tornado with? #2127421
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    Actually I’m kinda surprised the Rafale isn’t even considered. Would be a good platform for the heavy weapons. One squadron attached to EC 1/4, French training, French logistic train just German crews and mechanics.

    they (countries of the Eurofighter consortium) have spent several decades explaining that the french product is an inferior one, the french messed up, the Typhoon is a fabulous aircraft, world beater and whatnot… they can’t decently admit that they buy that aircraft they bashed so much because the flying wonder they have in service can’t fit the bill…

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015 #2127628
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    It makes sense only if Germany gives up NATO sharing. I think a Tranche 4 Eurofighter is a great idea for Germany but it appears that the German Air Force is not keen to surrender nuclear sharing and as such the F-35 becomes a valid option.

    Really? If they could do it with the Tornado what prevents them from doing it with the Typhoon? It’s still the very same M61 dumb bombs to drop

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015 #2127640
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    most logical in any case.. they have a fighter that they intend to keep into the 2040’s (Typhoon) and on which they “only” have to integrate new weapons, eventually… if they could choose the F-104 to do deep level strike, in comparison, usingn the Typhoon to take over after Tornado retirement is a piece of cake

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon discussion and news 2015 #2127879
    TooCool_12f
    Participant

    From 12 M2000 to 60 fighters for a quiet small country …that is really a stretch. I assume we can forget about their plan to acquire F15 , guess latest Trump rhetoric was too much.
    They should probably consider buying top of the line AD systems to protect their few airbases . Would be kind of sad to see such fire power wiped out in a missile strike.

    Any way 6.3 billion € for 24 rafales and 6.7 billion € for 24 typhoons, both inclusive aircrew and technicians training. What about the weapons package for typhoon ? would that include Meteor as for rafales and brimstone maybe ?.

    You’re a bit late.. Qatar has confirmed his option of 12 more

    http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2017/12/07/macron-au-qatar-plus-de-11-milliards-d-euros-de-contrats-en-guise-de-cadeau-de-bienvenue_5226053_3234.html

    so that’s 36 firm orders for the Rafale for a total price of $7.4 billion and has taken an option for 36 more. One could notice that the additional 12 costing “only” 1.1 billion, that would be $92 million per plane as the infrastructures and other “extras” are included in the initial contract…

    as for the F-15, they signed for 36 aircraft as well, for $12 billion

    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/qatar-orders-36-f-15qa-fighters-438280/

    that’s already 96 fighters bought with 36 options for more Rafales

Viewing 15 posts - 151 through 165 (of 3,094 total)