it used a radar blocker to mask the engine front, so, not such a big deal…
and for RCS measurements, nobody here can speak about it with real knowledge about the values, either because nobody knows or because some who do know can’t speak about it publicly anyway
again: the major problem is not the landing (recovery) but the take off. if it doesn’t use the catapult it can’t accelerate sufficiently with any significant load. the sukhoi struggles to get airborne while lightly loaded and it’s T/W ratio is >1 at that moment.
how do you expect the gripen to take off while weighing 15 tons (insufficiently loaded for its mission anyway) with an engine giving only 10-11 tons of thrust?
you’d just go to the end of the deck and fall into the water, unless you have something like 400m run or some “external help” (catapult, JATO boosters or something like that)
why not use arrested landings and STOBAR launch and you got a very short deck?
no 400m are needed…
Just look at the standard requirement for SU-35 for 450m runway, and it can still jump of a ship.
for the sukhoi, the jump is done with a few A2A missiles and a light fuel load. To operate with the Marines, the aircraft will have to be able to carry lots of ground ordnance with good persistency over the battlefield -> fly very heavy. there’s no way that a single engine fighter takes off with today’s technology in a couple of hundreds of meters without external help (catapult)…
and if itΒ΄s to fly with a bomb or two over a couple of hundreds of km, they can keep the harriers π
in any case, even considering that your ship is used one aircraft at the time, the marines use their aircraft mostly for ground support, meaning heavy loaded… so, you design a ship with the runway on which your gripen will take off and land using the whole length of the deck, which, with minimum safety margins, good headwind and ship advancing would mean a ship that is good 400m long.. which is still 30% bigger than todays biggest carriers USA have…
methinks that if they canned the F-35B (would spare a lot of money to many, USA included) the best thing for the USMC (which they should have decided from the beginning btw), would be to take the CATOBAR version and forget about vertical stuff
thing is, any fighter can come close to any SAM as long as it stays below radar horizon. Flying @ 100ft at high subsonic speed brings you way within the range of the AASM enabling you to hit the SAM battery by a pop-up maneuver… before ducking back to ground level to try to get out of radar coverage again. the major problem (besides the SAM you’re after and which will be after you quite rapidly once you pop-up, requiring a very rapid retreat back to deck level) on such a sortie would be the manpads which, unless you fly over a completely flat country will have limited range anyway.
Another thing is that no fighter would operate alone, except something like a Rafale on a nuclear strike mission, which is still quite unlikely to happen (and won’t be a SEAD mission anyway π )
J24, why do you think you can see french videos from Tchad where they fly really very very low? Do you think the french defense ministry sends fighters to Africa just to give their pilots some fun?
but you can’t operationally use your whole deck for take off and landing, and to have two separate spaces which would mean a ship way over 700m long
@djcross
What you describe would be like a “F-22 bis bomber” which would be incompatible with many other requirements (affordability, among others)
One can dislike the aesthetics of the F-32, but the big delta formula allowed for great amount of fuel while retaining space in the fuselage for weapons, etc… personally, I preferred it over the F-35 from the beginning, but, well, there’s little chance (none actually) that things get back, so… π
Edit: mack8 was a bit faster π
stealthier when flying level as ground based radars have a flatter surface facing them.
Major drawback: as you inscrease AoA your engine gets less air (fuselage masking the intake)
in your image the flir looker at the B-2 , F-22 from lower altitude , the aircraft against very cold sky
but when a f-35 try to retreat , pilot may decide to dive down to lower altitude than enemy and fly a ways π , so trying to find a cold aircraft in a clutter back ground would not be that easy
if it tries to escape, not only it won’t be cold but it will be glowing from the rear (there’s a tiny little thingy at the rear end called the engine that produces A LOT of heat π )
besides, while the engagements start at higher subsonic speeds, once you start pulling G’s your speed will inevitably drop fast. All in all, there are too many parameters to just make a short answer, but basically:
– before the fight starts the faster fighter can dictate whether and when to fight,
– once the fight started (chances are there are the missiles will be spent before the merge as none will voluntarily start a dogfight unless he doesn’t have another option), it can turn into a gunfight in which a faster fighter again has the edge (it can disengage and reengage at will while the slowest one can only hope to survive long enough to either kill the other guy or until the other guy is out of fuel).
Now if you have the slower fighter AND your fighter can’t turn as well as the other one, you’re in deep trouble (to stay polite) if you have only your gun left to fight your way out of there. Some may add “it’s a whole system that fights, not just on fighter or one group of fighters”, but the answer is the same, you either fight an opponent that is no significant threat to you in any way (like most (if not all) wars in the last two decades) and the F*35 is just a overpriced toy that could have been replaced easily by current fighters for much less cash spent, or you fight a really potent opponent and in such case, the F-35 better have some good fighters covering it while it goes to drop its load on target.
in case of F-22 fighting the F-18 , the F-18 simply dont know where the F-22 so speed bring a lot of advantages , same for the case of ZEro ,when enemy go out of sight pilot dont know from what direction they will come back π , but for F-35 the thing is completely different because DAS can help pilot see in all direction
It’s not about not knowing where they come from (in exercises they know full well where the adversary is) but about being outaccelerated without being able to follow
Today the same thing is counts again: if you can’t run away, you can’t disengage so easily if you’re at a disadvantage. The faster fighter can choose whether it accepts the fight or not, whether it stops the fight or not. The slower fighter can only try to hide and if it doesn’t work, it has to be able to fight back effectively as it can’t get away
hardly…
AFAIK they have very little, if any, compatible equipments, which would pose the problem of interoperability with the rest of brasilian forces
so you should read a bit more than wikipedia…
for a given aircraft, to fly level, the lift must compensate weight.
the heavier the aircraft the more lift it has to produce to remain airborne which means higher speed or higher AoA… in any case, it means a higher induced drag -> the weight DOES have an influence on drag
yes weight has nothing to do with drag
moon_light, by that simple phrase you just showed that you have no idea about basic aerodynamics of an aircraft…
have you ever heard about things like lift? induced drag? why an aircraft that pulls Gs looses speed?
TMor – very interesting. Two points: 1 – a vertical tail gives you a big lateral RCS spike. So you use your Spectra and don’t aim the spike at the threat. A rather small turn will suffice. 2 – As I understand it, the French approach is a combination of a reasonably good basic shape and the treatment of hot-spots, to get to an RCS which makes the jammer’s job much easier.
in fact, a surface gives you a big RCS spike if it’s oriented at 90Β° towards the emitter… a vertical tail as such, when the aircraft is flying level, won’t give a big RCS spike unless the emitter is at the same altitude, or else, the “spike” will be reflected “upwards. The canted tails had the advantage with horizontal pitch controls as they didn’t allow a right angle between two aircraft surfaces, which could act as big reflectors to the whole portions of the space around the aircraft. On the other hand, canted tails will, necessarily, face the surface of the ground by their external surface, which make them potentially “big radar reflectors” even for the aircraft flying level, for a ground based radar that may be positioned by their 3-9 o’clock line. that RCS spike they’ll cause will be limited to the moment where their surface is facing exactly the emitter (a pretty short time, if any)
The rafale has no surfaces that are perpendicular to the tail, except the canards which, by their positioning, make it extremely improbable to have any reflection that may hurt the aircraft’s RCS by that means
what he meant, I think, is to underline the fact that a MinDef is a politician, not a defense expert, and when defense experts tell him what needs to be done and what means have to be put into place to have it done, he should be humble enough to realize that it’s beyond his competence to question their claims, listen to them and try his best to have it done in the best possible way, rather than just playing politics in order to be reelected