Are you implying that Super Hornet and Gripen NG’s engine is outdated already? :rolleyes:

no, what I imply is that the power alone doesn’t mean much by itself. WS-13 seems to perform at the same level than the french technology from more than 40 years ago.

the F414 produces about 20% more thrust while being significantly smaller, proving, if need be, that its technology is more efficient; i.e. more advanced

well, for an engine that wide, it’s even less impressive (WS-13)

it would seem they push a lot of air through it, but can’t heat it all that much, which results in a quite low thrust for its diameter

actually, it would corroborate what a Snecma engineer said in a documentary about CFS-56 engines sold to china.

The chinese bought a small number of engines and then reverse-engineered them. However, at snecma they didn’t bother so much because they expected it, and, what’s more, the chinese could copy the shape but couldn’t copy the manufacturing technology for hot parts, and as a result, their engines had a much shorter lifespan

The WS-13 performance would seem to indicate that they still lag in that department. The Snecma M-53 from 1969 had 86kN of thrust with a 796mm wide fan. The WS-13, acocrding ot the wiki link, has 1060 wide fan (meaning, it can suck more air) to get just the same thrust, which means it has an even lesser performance (due to weaker hot parts) than the french technology from 1969… I won’t even speak about US tech in that area which is another level up..

that’s maybe why he granted himself a 70% salary rise when he got into office… but we’re getting somewhat off topic, methinks 😀

the “false rumors” have been spread by Swiss military and swiss medias… now, unless they are all rafale fanboys, you have a problem with your statement

what’s more, the entire process has been questioned at the swiss parliament…. rafale fanboys as well?

as for the “fitting requirements”

the gripen has been considered inadequate. then, the swiss minister declared it fit the requirements, then they announced they’ll make an “evaluation” to validate it (weird way to proceed if you ask me: first you say “it’s ok” and then you make the evaluation to “see if it’s ok” )

sorry, but one thing is clear: Maurer obviously decided he’d go for SAAB (cheapest option available) regardless of evaluation results… claiming a “new evaluation” after was just plain politicians BS to give it a looks of a valid claim

Can the gripen replace the F-5s? yes

was the whole process made as it was claimed to be (fair, by the rules, and so on)? no.

er, yes, I meant SAMs, sorry, my typo.. 😮

when I was a kid, in Yugoslavia, back in the late seventies, I saw a documentary about national air defences where they explained how they used a TV manual guidance for AAMs (don’t ask me to remember what exact missile type it was… it was some 35 years ago 😀 )

Obviously, it could be done at the time, so, today it is probably feasible as well

For french forces:

ordered: 180

planned: 286

from my memory: initially it was planned to get a bit over 300, then, reduced to 296 and then 286. Further reductions are been said to be unlikely as the Rafale has to replace all the other combat aircraft in french inventory, and unless they reduce the total volume (difficult considering the french foreign “policy”) the 286 number should stand. (we’ll see soon enough anyway)

@ Vnomad

You talk about economies of scale, but for the typhoon they are nonexistent for a very simple reason: instead of optimising the production chain, every partner nation’s politicians wanted to have a final assembly chain at home, therefore reducing greatly (if not nullifying) the economy of scale that was possible to achieve.

for example, the UK assembly line will go barely above 200 aircraft (UK ones plus the saudi ones), germany around 160, and italian and spanish ones less than a hundred.

If they get some more export markets, they may add a few here and there, but compared to dassaults almost 300 rafales planned (180 already ordered) for the french forces alone, plus a small bunch for India, the economy of scale already seems to be more promising for the rafale, even with less units sold, overall.