they could, but if that was considered an interesting option, they wouldn’t make MMRCA in the first place
Well if some people believe Sea Gripen (which just like you say is not developed yet, still in drawing board, build with company that have no experience with carrier aircraft) is doable (some even adamant it can be alternative to Shornet and Naval Rafale), then why Sea Typhoon (which is in the same state with Sea Grippen, but design by a company that have previously albeit long time ago experience with naval aircraft) is a ‘fantasy’ 😀 😉 ?
they both are in any case, I was just answering the question about Sea Gripen’s shortcomings compared to the other two. 😉
thing is, India needs a competent fighter and it needs it soon. they also need its technology so their industry can progress to be able to develop new aircraft and upgrades later on.
now, what choice do they have? of all competitors in MMRCA, they kept only two, the others being considered less capable operationally. if they cancel the MMRCA, what aircraft can they take that will fulfill their timeframe necessities and ToT needs? (no, the F-35 doesn’t meet either of those, not to speak of pricewhich nobody can precisely define)…
It is the other way around, Rafale offer no commonality with any major country using a carrier, while a Sea Gripen would have F414 in common with all of USN Carriers, in addition to India’s Tejas N should it pan out to be ok.
Weapons commonality is also greater than Rafale by a wide margin.
Also specify in what way Sea Gripen is less capable ?
the most pressing issue with carrier a/c is sortie rate,
and the smaller the carrier the more critical
now that’s really funny… tell me, have you ever heard of a small country right across the channel (from UK pov) having a naval airforce that’s probably second only to the US in their capabilities?
you claim a commonality of the sole engine vs the entire airframe.
besides, talking about a sea gripen and “in what areas it would be less capable”… how about lesser payload, range, not to speak about the fact that it would be a navalised version to be developed, from an aircraft that still has to be developed, by a company having no experience in naval aircraft… don’t you think that UK wasted enough money on unkept promises with the F35 and doesn’t need to bet on another (even more stretched) one (and that includes even more so the “sea typhoon fantasy”)?
a couple of things:
USN needs SHs to replace rapidly aging aircraft, so, getting them on short notice may sound somewhat optimistic.
On the other hand, France is looking for an export also to reduce (delay) its own rafales orders.
Add to that that Dassault stated that they could put something like 30 aircraft per year with current production chain and you get the picture: should the UK order the rafale, they may get their full force in a matter of 2-3 years (I doubt they’d order more than 60, which would already be a lot for a “stopgap measure” )
Now, is there a chance the UK order rafales?
very slim at best. BAe will lobby as hard as they can against it, and there will be a lot of “anti-french” noise on various medias so the politician who’d sign the deal may have some problems on communications level, even if operationally it may be a better move (a good proven aircraft doing everything they may ask from the fleet, and using as much as possible european weapons).
another detail that made me wonder:
apparantly Typhoon being cheaper in the UAE and Switzerland,
er, Lightning, I think you should recheck your sources, in switzerland, the typhon was given as the most expensive of the three (gripen cheapest, rafale second and typhoon the most costly), as for UAE, well, it’s another story that’s far from being finished yet
I wouldn’t see them put an EJ200 version inside, as it is about a good 10% less powerful already, which wouldn’t be exactly interesting, especialy for a naval aircraft (in case of bolter, you use all the power you can get to take off again)
which is moot because Korea will never sell their T-50 to China/Saudi/Russia. they got their own products. Saudi could be an exception but unlikely.
in related news.. South Korean AF orders prototypes of FA-50 to be built. Again if an an air force will be flying FA-50s for their light fighter, T-50 makes very much sense as their main trainer.
other wise i do like M-346.. but prefer the looks of older Yak-130.. looks stealthy
aside the fact that on that pic it’s camouflaged, it’s the same aircraft
of course not, but the aging aging aircraft will need replacements, and considering french foreign “policies” in the last couple of decades, they can’t expect to go around the planet in, say, 2030, with aircraft staying at their 2012 level. They’ll either have to buy something else (not very popular IMHO, regardless of political oriantation) or keep the upgrades going
one more time: the rafale is to be the one aircraft equipping the french airforce for several decades… that alone is enough to clear any doubts about the upgrades and modernisation questions in the future. as for the defence minister, he’ll most certainly be history in a couple of months from now, so, his views on what the french orders will be in the next five don’t really matter
er… with the huge amount of money already poured into it, developing a whole new aircraft now would be too much even for those stating “after all the investment, we have to take it”
in other words, it just can’t happen, even if it would certainly be a more suitable aircraft
talking about non rrench weaponry:
– dassault uses nato-compliant interfaces, so using different nato weaponry wouldn’t be so complicated to implement
– dassault has no problem whatsoever to integrate any weapon on the rafale, but it depends on customer’s will and, most of all, the weapon manufacturer and its government (they can veto an integration and refuse to give the necessary codes for that)
right now?
rafale: the aircraft
typhoon: the engines
typhoon it’s possible (if other “partners” pull out of it as they seem already to be trying to do), but the rafale is quite unlikely, as the french HAVE to replace a whole bunch of aircraft and the rafale is there just for that.
what’s more, if India chooses the Rafale, it may eventually encourage brasil to do the same, which would mean also another assembly line and production facilities on another continent
Then there is the need for greater amounts of testing that results from growing complexity.
overall, most around here will agree with your post, yet, LM (the guys supposedly knowing what thry’re doing) is guilty of ignoring the very basic and obvious principle I just copied from your post when they claim being able to start deliveries before finishing the initial testing…
from wikipedia, for what it’s worth:
With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the subsequent collapse of the Soviet Union, signalling the end of the Cold War, the French government considerably reduced the budget allocated to defence. The French Air Force was reorganised, the Mirage 5F was completely phased and a total of 55 Mirage F1Cs were upgraded to a tactical fighter configuration, redesignated as Mirage F1CT. The Rafale’s development was stalled by a lack of available funds, prolonging the development considerably.
Production of the first aircraft series formally started in December 1992, but was suspended in November 1995 due to political and economic uncertainty. Production only resumed in January 1997 after the Ministry of Defense and Dassault agreed on a 48-aircraft (28 firm and 20 options) production run with delivery between 2002 and 2007