actually, believing that spectra as suc h is madu in USA seems pretty naive to me…
it doesn’t matter where the mother compatny is, if it’s a US entity, based in US that makes a thing (in the US), the US administration can veto the export of its products, meaning, if, for any reason, rafale was sold to a country the US don’t like, they could block the export of spectra to that country.
What’s more, what’s probably the most sensitive part of the rafale being made entirely outside france? come on.. think a bit before believing something ,which is just a single line from a website…
or it may mean that they, just as western guys, consider these details as highly sensitive, and don’t talks too much, except generalisations, like “it will be stealthy”…
engines and aerodynamics particularities “in general sense” may be easier to discuss
would be logical that the “cold” air comes from the axle for rotor blades, and from the outer ring for stator blades.. the parts they’re fixed on, basically 😉
going this way, there soon will be more assebly lines for the rafale than rafales sold 😀
when I read “you need to train your pilots for catobar, but for the f35b they’ll just go into service”, sorry, youi’re completely wrong.
the F-35 is controlled differently, flies differently and has completely different performance than the harrier, which means that the pilots transitionning to it would have to go through a complete training program, not necessarily much cheaper or faster than the CATOBAR qualifying… and in any case, any new pilot will have to qualify for the type, one way or the other, making this whole debate pointless in just a few years time
What’s more, the SH acquisition would provide the RN with fighters they can entirely maintain themselves, unlike the F-35… when you get a major problem on an aircraft somewhere on the ocean.. with the SH, you can repair, providing you have sufficient number of parts (which you can prepare before going to sea, just in case), while with the F-35, a number of repairs won’t be doable outside a US maintainance service, which means, that, in case of major failure, you have a nice 15ton piece of stealthy junk wasting space onboard your ship, and which has to stay there until you get back…
Does the RAF need to buy Goshawks if it goes down the cat and trap route to train its pilots or can it source all its training between the US and France, and if so how does this effect operational sovereignty in the future?
one thing:
France, for its navy pilot’s training has a program where the candidates train on CAP 10 aircraft (aerobatic school aircraft with 180hp) and then, they are sent for two or three years to the US Navy training center. When they get back, they only have to be qualified on their combat aircraft type (rafale or super etendard).
Basically, if RN wanted to train with the french, it would be a very short syllabus… 😀
… unless you mean they should buy rafales and have a common OTU with the french on it? 😉
I still have to wonder what payload you expect to take up in the air with a skijump-launched SeaGripen… Maybe I missed it, but to accelerate sufficiently in order not to sink into the sea immediately after take off with a heavily loaded aircraft, you’ll need a lot of thrust, lot more than a single F-414 can provide.
Now, the Su-33 with something like 25tons of thrust can take off from a carrier only lightly loaded meaning it has to keep his thrust/weight ratio >1.
the F-414 in the SeaGripen would provide about 10t of thrust. if the same rule applies (t/w >1) you won’t have much load onboard.
the gripen Ng is supposed to weigh 7.1t, a seagripen, with reinforced airfram would weigh a bit more… that would give you, what? 2-2.5t to play with? put some fuel inside so tanks don’t immediately run dry when you light the AB for take off and you don’t have any margin for weapons left.
make it catapult launched aorcraft, and it comes to play with the hornet and the rafale, which is not the same league anymore
thing is, you can much more easily make a stealth platform if you don’t have to manage a guy inside it.
teh mirage2000 has a very small RCS for a 1970’s fighter due to its basic shape.
Consider that dassault has a great deal of experience with deltas, they should be quite capable of making a supersonic stealth UCAV.
The thing is: what for?
Today, the french are working on electronic ways to counter radar, so a discrete airframe (on can say LO), like the rafale, helped with its electronic equipment can manage high survivability, in today’s and future environments.
So, basically, the answer to the initial question: europeans (french at least) are on it, just they have chosen another path: electronic, rather than trying to make an airframe shaped for stealth, considering that it would be better investment as the shape cant readapt to evolutions in EM technologies while the electronic equipments, once developed, can be reprogrammed as necessary
jackjack
you say in one post that modifying the airframe for the M-88-9 isn’t worth it, but in another you propose they put the F414 inside, which bis bigger, heavier and need even more work on the airframe to fit.
Does that really sound logical to you?
if you exclude those who had politicfal interest in doing so (like australia, where it may be pretty unhealthy for your career to question that choice, as pointed out in a couple article posted here a few months ago 😉 ), so that any other reason couldn’t make them change their mind, your list will be short.. very short)
the problem is that the air inlets won’t allow sufficient airflow for 9t thrust, so, if you want a beefier engine, you need to redo the inlets on the airframe.
the thrust doesn’t come out of nowehere… you need to feed the engine somehow 😉
So is the IPP In the engine, or is it that circular thing near the tail?
I owe you an apology if the F-35 is indeed the Mother of all blow torches instantly incinerating all decks or any surface it needs to land on.
I was easily to be mistaken since the F-35 is only 18 degrees hotter than a AV8 engine, and that there is 20K Lbs of cold thrust pluming just a feet feet ahead of the rear nozzle for give my insolence oh great one. /grovel
The harrier system consists of four nozzles, two coming directly from front fan (cold air) and two from the “nozzle”, blowing hot gases slightly sidewards. None of these blows directly down and “inches from the surface”. As a result, even taking off or landing vertically, the hot gases frmo the AV8 don’t constantly hit the same spot on ground/deck.
actually, the aims were to destroy serb military and these were far from achieved (by airpower, at least)
anyway, it’s another story
jackjack, you say the ToT was increased from 10% to 40% for rafale to win.
while I can’t contest that (and have no intention to try anyway) I find funny to see it favored the rafale while even on this very board we had plenty of claims about swede “highest ToT” in the competition…
if they had the best offer ToT wise, how could such increase favor the rafale? don’t you agree?
soon, SAAB willl propose the Ng to local aeroclubs for initial PPL training:
“simple to fly and affordable… better than a Cessna 152 guys!” 😀