TooCool_12fexcept that the french may be more interesteed in a imediate sale than a “intention letter” for an aircrft that they probably aren’t going to develop for a couple more decades
you also forgot one thing:
FAB prefers the gripen, but why? because they don’t appreciate that Lula takes the decision out of their hands. Normally, the military represent just a tool for the political decisions, but when the military goes out of their way to put political pressure on the civilian leaders (so called “leaks” and all these communications about their “preferences”), it’s definitely not just because they like more this or that piece of kit, but because they want to play a political role.
TooCool_12fbecause it makes a nicer presentation than just bank and turn… 😉
TooCool_12fEvery source i have seen claims the F-35 is around two years behind :confused:
actually, they put up a new schedule with 2-3 years delay and say “it’s 2 years” behind schedule”.. then, when it’s clear it won’t be done, they put another two year delay and say “it’s two years behind schedule”.. what they don’t say is that it’s “2 years behind the already delayed by 2-3 years schedule”
TooCool_12fYou’ve never heard of a pilot disengaging Ab after liftoff? Hmm. I guess given your obvious knowledge and experience, that every aircraft flies around in AB permanently…
er, just a little detail, nobody every reduces thrust right after leaving the ground (lift off)… you don’t do that, never. Since that’s the very moment when you do need power to keep your acceleration (increase speed) and add climb (increase altitude) to it. You either maintain your thrust where it is (take off power), or even add more if available like, for example, the rafale does when catapulted from carriers who doesn’t put AB until it leaves the ship (I guess there a safety reason for doing so, or maybe not wanting to damage something)
anyway, on take off, it doesn’t latter whether you fly a cessna 150, a 747 or a fighter, you take everything your aircraft can give, and reduce only after you’re high enough to have a “plan B” possibility in case something goes wrong.
TooCool_12ffrench navy still uses CAP 10 for initial training and selection, side by side aerobatic school aircraft. It’s much cheaper to operate and taking anything like a turboprop for initial contact with aircraft is considered as an overkill…
TooCool_12fI don’t consider it a problem, stating clearly what they want and make their choice, in either case, canada or europe. If canada wants a lifter that’s ready now, defects ironed out etc, they can say so, and if some are unhappy because that puts the A400 can not participate in the competition, that’s their problem.
If europeans want to build their own aircraft, it’s their right, and if that causes concern to Lockheed, than it’s Lockheeds problem.. quite simple in fact.
in KC-X competition the problem is that, first time it was cancelled for illegal behaviour of some, and the second time, the airforce had made its choice and yet, that choice was cancelled basically saying “ok, you’ve chosen the wrong one” (obvously, the politicians should state publically that they “ask USAF to choose between A and B, but not A”… talk about “competition” )
TooCool_12fMcCain didn’t unveil anything. In fact McCain’s concern was with the cost MOST IMPORTANTLY that the later batches of tankers to be procurred not be at the higher lease cost. It was in fact Boeing which unveiled the Sears/Druyun misconduct.
oh, than I guess you should explain to Darlene Druyun, former USAF acquisition chief who did 9 months in prison that J. McCain didn’t reveal anything and that she was in fact on some sort of “shady holidays”:
http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0105/010505g1.htm
she sure would agree with you… :rolleyes:
of course, the boeing CEO Phil Condit resigned only because he was a bit tired, and needed some holidays too.. most certainly it had nothing to do with bribery charges of any sort… same for other high officials in pentagon who left after that…
TooCool_12fThis is just plain untrue, but you can tell yourself this if it makes you feel smarter. Politically, there was actually more support for the original Northrop Grumman proposal, back when the Republicans held more sway in the government. It would have been manufactured in more states, which also equates to more political support.
The whole “US will never buy European” argument doesn’t hold water. Otherwise Eurocopter never would have beaten MD Helicopters and AgustaWestland never would have beaten Sikorsky in those recent competitions.
This was a Northrop Grumman vs Boeing showdown in which the Republican politicians and the USAF leaders at the time (2006-07) favored Northrop Grumman. Unfortunately, the USAF botched the competition mightily, giving Boeing the excuse it needed to protest and the GAO upheld it. The GAO is actually less political than most agencies in D.C., and the issues with the competition were valid.
This had been a Boeing vs Northrop Grumman battle royale. Boeing was top-dog in 2002-03, but NG held more sway 06-07. With the Democrats in power, the old USAF leaders fired, and Murtha (pro-split buy) now dead, the pendulum has swung back to Boeing and I think that the USAF has seen that as the safest option and has drafter the RFP accordingly. Now that Dicks is in line to replace Murtha, Boeing will probably get this and any attempt to overturn the decision will be seen as “unpatriotic”. Right or wrong, this is probably the best for the USAF.
“With one more dollar, I would buy the ink that would fill the pen that would write the law that would make it illegal to protest the next tanker competition.” — Gen. Donald Hoffman, Air Force Materiel Command chief
Cheers,
Logan
the problem is that, if you followed what happened, boeing won the contract initially (before there even was a competition), than, senator McCain un veiled a bribery offence from boeing and the competition was organized.
then, the USAF (the guys who are supposed to use the thing) preferred the NG/EADS proposal, yet, boeing contested the decision and won on the argument that the proposed aircraft was bigger than his own and that it wasn’t fair to take it in consideration since it had bigger payload, etc… the fact that those who are supposed to use it have chosen it visibly had no importance, and another “competition” was to take place… except that the terms are clearly favoring boeing.
In the end, it’s not about “USA vs the rest of the world” or “which aircraft is the best” or “fits the best service’s needs”, but which lobby will be able to win… and for now, boeing lobbyists seem to have the upper hand.
TooCool_12flittle video that some may have seen…
http://dassaultwebtv.empreinte.com/web/c-1/v-500/Demonstration_du_Rafale_-_Bourget_2009.html
rafale ptresentation over “le bourget airshow 2009” and its specific small manouvering area (CdG airport is right beside it), with Cne Ruet commeting
the link doesn’t seem to work in firefox, use IE instead 😉
TooCool_12fthing is, if the aircraft are built in brasil, they won’t depend on french suppliers…
what remains to be seen is if they really will be built entirely overthere or just assembled from french built parts. If it’s the former, they’ll be completely independant. If they have to make do with french built parts, then the argument is the same as for any of the other competitors…
So, if Lula prefers the french offer so much, my guess is that the deal involves the independant assembly (all parts made etc) in brasil, which can’t be done for either of the other proposals.
TooCool_12fdassault usually says that the Rafale is a “discreet” aircraft, not stealthy but with quite reduced RCS.
Considering the tail of the aircraft, if the surface is clean and vertical, the radar waves won’t reflect back to the radar unless it’s perfectly at 90° with the surface… so a single vertical fin isn’t that much of a problem.
For the air intakes, with the rafale, they have an “S” shape, combined with internal surface shaping in a way to let pass the waves inside, but maintain them there as much as possible… basically, radar waves can enter easily but have little to no chance to get back out of the intakes
TooCool_12fit won’t change much… if A330F wins, politicians break the decision… if boeing wins, there have to be really illegal stuff to have it cancelled…
the initial demand was already made to favor boieng and A330F passed anyway… boeing had it cancelled (by politicians) and now, the way the RFP is done, it can’t go anywhere else than boeing… had they mark “bidders, we want you to participate for boeing to win” wouldn’t be clearer.
reminds me of the poll about european constitution proposal. french population voted “no” (massive participation, for once) and as soon as todays president was elected, he changed it to “yes”… for USAF, it’s similar: whatever they say or prefer, it’s politicians that have already decided what answer is the only one acceptable for them. making an RFP is just a mascarade, so why would NG/EADS participate and loose their time on it?
TooCool_12fnot completely impossible, but:
– UAE want a “boosted” version, so I doubt they’ll take second hand aircraft
– even the “old ” F1 models are refitted to F3 standard.
I guess there may still be some F2 standard aircraft left, but today, considering the numbers produced, any fighter, in service or to be produced, should be at the highest level available (so, if one wants to sell “diminished ones” they’ll have to be produced on purpose…)
It’s not like the USAF that, when introducting Block 40 or 50 F-16s, has loads of older F-16 models which they don’t really know what to do with…
TooCool_12fm2k was given as an example of the type of aircraft they may propose if they gad to remove spectra… and reopening the production lines for the m2k would still be easier for the french than selling the navalized f-16s, no? 😀
and, talking about rafale numbers, if they’re almost 300 in french services a single sale should suffice to reach 300 aircraft, don’t you think?
in any case, all that is very very hypothetical…
TooCool_12fSo THE reasons for selecting the Rafale have nothing to do with the merits of the plane itself…
just like any other combat aircraft deal…no more no less…
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