again, we agree, but is it Dassaults fault if Indias acquiring process takes ages? They will gladly sell aircraft to India, but they can’t do so (nobody can, for that matter) under any terms.. If india asks to do things in a way it can’t be done, or a way that is unacceptable for any manufacturer (for example, asking that Dassault takes the whole responsibility for anything that happens, even if it’s entirely HAL’s fault) things obviously take time. The major problem for India is that their fighter fleet is slowly shrinking as months pass by, while Dassault lives from its bizjets, has French orders to keep it busy on the Rafale on a gentle pace, and can afford to loose several more years if India drags its feet too long. Now some, in India, complain it takes too long… they should think first before pointing fingers 😉

evidence, you can have plenty, there are just a couple of articles you can find:

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/article-view/feature/132379/why-rafale-won-in-india.html

The Indian Air Force also is a satisfied user of long standing of French fighters, going back to the Dassault Ouragan in the 1950s. It was also particularly appreciative of the performance of its Mirages during the 1999 Kargil campaign against Pakistan, and of the support it then obtained from France. During that campaign, India obtained French clearance – and possibly more – to urgently adapt Israeli and Russian-supplied laser-guided bombs to the Mirages, which were thus able to successfully engage high-altitude targets that Indian MiG-23s and MiG-27s had been unable to reach.

http://www.idsa.in/node/8531/3452

One of the reasons the IAF favoured this fighter, besides intrinsic merit, is its experience with the Mirage-2000 fighters acquired in 1984-85. The Mirage was used first in the opening phase in Sri Lanka. Later the Mirage also proved its superior technology during the 1999 Kargil conflict when the small enemy targets at high altitude could not be successfully engaged with other strike fighters. The Mirage-2000 fleet has maintained a very high serviceability and utilisation rate and above all an unbelievably envious flight safety record. It is hoped that the Rafale would prove equally effective and economical in the long run. The main reason for the high serviceability of the Mirage-2000 fleet, I am told, is the near instant availability of spares and technical support from the French Dassault and the Thales team, and a state of the art avionics laboratory in Gwalior that is more sterile than the best hospital’s Intensive Care Unit (ICU).

other questions?

what’s funny is that IAF needs aircraft now, and then people complain about delays… Should India ask for it, France would gladly let Dassault switch completely to India’s aircraft right now (which would save a few billions to the french defence budget for the time being), and allow India to start receiving its first Rafales almost immediately

Lastly, don’t label me with those who make unreasonable claims about the F-35 being able to outperform x or y. It is what it is, a strike fighter. What aggravates me, are blanket statements about F-35 performance that are untrue, or flatly absurd like this : “you have G limitations, acceleration limitations… you name it, it has it… just like every modern fighter, only lower…”

Absurd when they quote US officials stating they had to lower the requirements below what’s used on others because it couldn’t match them?

On one thing we agree, it’s a strike fighter… and being a lesser A2A performer than latest fighters that are more targeted at air to air roles shouldn’t be a surprise, what’s so complicated to understand there?

–Off Topic–
In case of India, so far we are avoiding a conflict but Chinese are provoking us directly (incursions) and indirectly (passing nuclear & missile technology to rouge states in our neighbourhood). Chinese must not push India to wall where India has no choice but hit back.

Alliances with Japan, Vietnam, deploying missiles, planes and special offensive forces on east border are indicators that we are getting frustrated with Chinese aggression, their ever changing positions, demands, borders and no movement on settlement issues.

I don’t know about FR, US or others but India will seriously consider to help Taiwan if we receive any such request via proper channels.

rkumar, India is a special case, as they already have somewhat “cold” relations with China… I talk about manufacturers of countries who all hope to get billions of deals with China, and don’t want chinese to get upset about that…

Now, providing India ends up signing with the French, and should the French give them the ability to sell on the Asian market, then, they may eventually propose Rafales to the Taiwanese, where the French may play dumb saying “India does what they want with their technology”… but the Rafales made by Dassault most certainly won’t ever be sold to Taiwan. The only eventual “french” possibility may be the sale from UAE of their Mirages (quite modern, to say the least) as they buy Rafales… where the French would be outside partners, but even that, I’m not sure the French would accept,

FBW, his claim is fully supported by plenty of reported data in this very thread… all you need to do is read it… it’s been posted and if you really want to know, do your research yourself. Asking repeatedly for the same data all over again until the other guy gets fed up of loosing his time on research just for you to reask for the same “proof” some 10 pages later again, gets a bit boring. You have G limitations, acceleration limitations… you name it, it has it… just like every modern fighter, only lower…

well, yes and no… when your currency goes down, usually there’s the inflation that goes with it. As all prices move up (for imports at least) you can’t claim a price increase for a single item as in real value it hasn’t moved all that much.

Dassault assemble 11 Rafale a year. What is your source giving their cost as more than a a billion Euro?

might be wrong, but seems to me that a unit price was somewhat above 100 million, so, for 11 aircraft that would be about 1.1 bn euros