MigLThe US is the only country that invades others to further their foreign interests ?????
Russia, China, Japan Germany Italy, N. Korea, N. Vietnam, India, Pakistan and numerous African and South American countries come to mind over the last century.
Canada and the US have the longest undefended border in the world for almost 200 yrs.
Maybe you think you would have been better off living in one of the East European countries bordering Russia during the last 50 yrs.
Amiga, why don’t you say it in your head before you post your idea, if it still makes sense then do it, because i don’t think you put any thought into your post at all.
MigLWow, didn’t know we had so many Canadians on this forum>
Hey HABS, I think you’re letting your political stripes show. Canada became a tier2 member of the F-35 programme by contributing $250mil or $500mil (don’t recall which ) along with a bunch of other countries to fund developement and be eligible for subcontract work ( of which we got more than our fair share ). ALL THIS HAPPENED DURING THE LAST LIBERAL GOVERNMENT !
Would you now expecr this money to be thrown away just like the $800mil that was thrown away by the Liberals in penalties when they scrapped the EH-101 programme in the 90s, our old Sea Kings were falling out of the sky monthly, until the Liberals bought the same helicopter ( reduced capability Cormorant version ) for more money a few years later.
The Canadian Air Force has two major duties. The first is the estabilishment of our sovereignity over our airspace, reqiring long range air patrol ( those pesky Russian bombers and surveillance aircraft ). I agree that for this job SuperHornet, Typhoon, Rafale or even surplus American F-15 would do a commendable if not superior job. But the second duty is our new version of “peace keeping”, where interdiction and strike missions are carried out against hostile forces carrying SAMs. This is done with our allies, most of whom will field F-35. Its lo-observability and commonality make it the best choice for this mission.
So, other than going for two airframes ( higher cost ), the choice of the F-35c makes perfect sense.
Incidentally the cost includes ALL support for the airframes during the service life, not just airframe cost.
MigLJust to weigh in with my two cents. This is a case of damned if you do and damned if you don’t. The longer we wait to do something about North Korea the worse it will be because they will continue to develop nuclear weapons and their economy will further stagnate making them even more desperate. They’ll use the only leverage they have, military extortion even worse than up to now, and our desire to avoid war at all costs.
The cost of doing something now is also extreme as the value of lost lives would be immense. However this cost is not shared by North Korea as their leader does not value his citizens’ lives, just like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot etc. They are cannon fodder for his cause.
Which is why this notion of proportional retaliation, which is becoming popular with liberals especially with respect to Israel and the Palistinians, seems so absurd to me. The only way to keep someone from hurting you is to make sure he knows he will be hurt even more in retaliation. Not an equal amount !! This is called deterrence and it worked pretty well during the most dangerous time in history, the cold war.
MigLI’ve always liked the c-130 spectre ( ?sp? ) as a slow moving, persistant gun platform. Maybe just a little too big. But a version of the c-27j or c-235/295, with a BIG gun would also be suitable. The US was interested in a version of the c-27j at one time, but I haven’t heard anymore about it.
MigLGrM, please tell me what world do you live on ???
MigLAll your points make sense cessna, but don’t apply to just the US. All nations adjust their conflict doctrine based on past conflicts as its impossible to accurately predict the future. So US doctrine in the 50s and 60s was based on WW2 and Korea, in the 80s and 90s, on Vietnam, there is a constant evolution. By the same token is there any use to China’s large standing army? Probably not and China is slowly introducing advanced weapon systems and approaching the US model.
I would argue however that small regional powers , like Serbia and Afghanistan, are where the biggest deficiencies in US armed power are, since they are not set up for this type of warfare. This fortunately ( or unfortunately ) is the future of warfare since most (all ??) advanced nations usually resolve their differences through other means.
MigLI’ve been away for a while and made the mistake of starting to read this thread on my return. I only got as far as the 5th page before it had degenerated to nuclear war between the superpowers and by the last pages its again about radar.
First to cessna and clampipe, there won’t be nuclear war between the US and Russia/China as the economies are too dependant on each other. A lot of the American debt is owned by China. A war would be the perfect excuse to cancel a lot of the American debt, also the only reason the Chinese manufacturing economy is growing at double digit rates is because of western (read American) consumerism. What happened last year when Americans stopped buying? Even the much vaunted Chinese economy went for a dump.
As for Russia and its mighty air defense system, do you remember the German GA plane which landed in Red Square about 10-15 yrs ago? I bet the Serbs or the Iraquis would have intercepted it. I think Russia learned its lesson after 50 yrs of cold war bankrupted it, it won’t be trying anything similar anytime soon as it depends on the West to keep its recovery going. Who do you think it sells its natural resources such as oil and gas to ?? And If you think you can assess the prformance of a plane by seeing the video of its first flights, and say that it betters the F-22, then I guess there’s no sense arguing with you as you are either above MENSA level intelligence or a moron.
Remember when the US Navy wanted VTOL aircraft and the Rockwell XFV-12 was built ?? Was it better tha the 30 yrs older Harrier ?? NO IT WASN’T !! It didn’t even get off the ground. Newer does NOT mean better.
The only war the Americans have ever lost, ie not met their objectives, has been Vietnam, and that was lost because of internal pressure, not from the enemy. If you were of reading age during the late 60s, or you read a good impartial book, you know that operation linebacker had the Vietcong ready to sue for peace and that only protest by American civilians forced the US armed forces out of Vietnam. Does anyone really believe that when American lives and soil are at stake the US armed forces won’t pull out all the stops and carpet bomb any other country on this planet until its reduced to Martian landscape (Nuclear armed are an exception of course and require more finesse such as economic pressure, which worked with Russia)? And even Korea could have been won instead of a truce. It wasn’t the Chinese that stopped the UN forces but Western morals and ‘our’ idea of proportional response. Which seems counter-intuitive to me since deterrence is the fear of worse reprisals for your actions, but this idea is applied more and more often these days especially to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
MigLKiwi,don’t derail this thread with your ‘agenda’, we’ve all had enough.
I thought afterburner was rated by temperature as fo example 1500 deg reheat, or 1800 deg reheat, at least in older english publications. Would it be fair to assume then, that the same amount of fuel for a given bypas flow would produce the same afterburner temperature? So why would one engine have an appreciably hotter exhaust than another given similar specs as say an M-88 and EJ-200. Does anyone have info on exhaust plume temp, or is the difference attributable to the nozzle?
MigLDoes anyone have any info on the max sustainable speed of a clean ( it has a small bomb bay) F-111 on military ( no A/B) thrust??
MigLRVFharrier, what if Israel dropped an ultimatum to all countries involved. Something like N.Korea always does,” If you stop sending us aid we consider it an act of war and will attack you.”
Israel could say “If we can prove any weapons used against us by Hamas originated in a third country we will declare war against said country up to and including nuclear retaliation.” What would the world say then? Would they complain about proportinal retaliation? Doesen’t that defeat the purpose of deterrence, that the prospect of a terrible retaliation keeps the peace ( as it did during the cold war) ???
I do think the Turkish military will get involved before the situation gets too out of hand. They’ve been looking for an excuse since this government took office, and they realise that the only way into Europe is to keep secular. Politicians, rightly or wrongly, don’t look at the big picture, just polls to get re-elected. Pascha (spelling ?) must be spinning in his grave.
MigLIt may not be a Kurdish state but it is an independant state, not part of Turkey but part of Iraq, swerve. So who gave Turkey the right to attack them? Or are the rules different for Israel? And lets not even compare hystorical atrocities committed by Israel and Turkey. Israel may have taken some Palestinian lands, but only after they were attacked and as every other victor of a war has done through the ages. Turkey on the other hand will not even aknowledge the massacre of a couple of million Armenians before WW1 and get hostile if someone even mentions it.
Also, I don’t feel like checking Google maps, But can you get to a port in Gaza without traversing Israeli or Egyptian territory, including the 12 nautical mile sea territory?
MigLI really don’t want to get dragged back into this endless debate (mostly with kiwinopal),but the YF-17 was definitely NOT unstable and unless McD/D redesigned it even more than I thought to make the F-18, I doubt very much as to its instability. Look at how far back its main wing is, the amount of tailplane deflection (in kiwi’s pictures above) needed to rotate the aircraft for takeoff and the position of the landing gear with respect to quarter chord (subsonic CoL). I would be very surprised if the F-18 was unstable.
Incidentally Kiwi this last point only applies for take-off or landing. In most other situations the CoG remains stable (depending on fuel and ordinance), but the CoL is dynamic with speed and maneuvering, and so is the moment arm of the control surfaces. Remember the CoL of a subsonic wing is at quarter chord while a supersonic wing is at half chord.
MigLMODERATOR!!!
Things are getting out of hand.
Really, there’s no need for that kind of response (hawkdriver05 to swerve), its way out of line.
As for escalation of the conflict, it won’t happen! What would Turkey have done if an Israeli fleet was steaming towards Turkey with the intention of running a blockade and landing on Turkish territory? Are the Israelis not sovereign on their own territory just as the Turks would be on theirs?How come noone complained when the Turks sent their armed forces into an independant Kurdish state and killed thousands, there wasen;t even a peep from international media or the UN. Incidentally I am not Jewish but ‘somewhat’ Roman Catholic, a Canadian citizen but born in Italy.
Why doesn’t the group of international terrorists and human rights abusers that calls itself UN get it head out of its ass and start criticising North Korea for sinking the South Korean ship and killing almost 60 people? The only country they ever complain about is Israel, what a joke!!
Moderator, if this post is out of place please move it to the appropriate forum. Thank you.
MigLI recently saw KICK-ASS. The best ‘super hero’ film ever made. Give it a watch you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
MigLI recently saw KICK-ASS. The best ‘super hero’ film ever made. Give it a watch you’ll be pleasantly surprised.
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