Tay,

No offence taken. So it is confirmed at least for ground targets. And the bit for airborne ones was in development circa 2006, I s’pose the rascals in dassault/thales have achieved this by now?

But anything verifiable / open source? So far all sources that I see are either talking of ground targets via spectra or just “target” generircally. The closest I have come to find this is:

Versatility is not an empty word.

Better yet, december 7, a pair of Rafale which protected a SAR combat device shot down 10 incoming hostile fighters while dropping six AASM on 6 different land targets forty km far , everything without leaving their CAP racetrack.In addition, the Rafale OSF allowed the positive identification of hostile fighters forty kilometers far. And, December 6, a MICA has been assigned its target – indeed virtually destroyed – only with the SPECTRA system.

Thanks to Arthuro way back when http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=100299

Anyone know where this comes from? Thanks all. Added l8r: it is from DSI mag.

USS.

uss novice :

Thanks to TMor ‘s work on putting everything together in a nice and friendly way , here are your answers :

All these data come from Dassault various publications like the FoxThree “journal de bord” :
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fr/defense/rafale/publications.html

Also check the No14 (under “passive detection) :
http://www.dassault-aviation.com/fileadmin/user_upload/redacteur/Defence/Rafale/Fox_Three_N_14_UK2.pdf

Cheers .

Thanks Blue, Tmor. But this does not suggest that the Rafale can fire a mica at bvr using the info from the OSF – unless of course the LRF is used. The OSF allows detection/tracking of heat sigs and forms a great image of targets well beyond VR, but is the track good enough for a firing solution. Range AND bearing? IOWs, the Rafale can “see” the target, but does this mean it can hit it? OR does it use the RBE or LRF to be able to fire a BVR missile? This does not truly make the Rafale any different from its peers – almost any modern a/c with IRST/TV can do the same including the PIRATE and OLS-30.

Also, what about the spectra? Last I heard, it could detect and provide accuracy within 1 degree of a given emitting target (I assume ground based). What about moving, airborne targets?

USS.

Yes spectra alone gives a good ranging estimation. Enough to get a firing solution for a mica IR.

Now, I presume that the ranging accuracy depends on how smart the emitting radar is. Ranging an APG-77 might be a bit more difficult than a N001

Yes, I suppose the apg-77 might be a bit more difficult 🙂 Now at last, we are getting to the juicy stuff! Any source on this exceptional ability of the Spectra – Kovy, Arthuro, Nic, Tay, Blue, Tmor (or his ghost), anyone?

Also, this Mach 1.2 supercruise is confirmed then? When, where and what kind of load out if you will,please.

USS.

out of the MMRCA aircraft, the F-18E would be the next choice simply because it is the best striker of them all.

Assuming that it just might arguably be the best striker, it must be remembered that the A2A department counts for something too, and the Shornet does not seem to be on top there.

If you plan on entering airspace covered with S300 types and swarming with flanker variants, you’d need to exit with some alacrity don’t you think? Unfortunately, the bug ain’t exactly super when it comes to speed or acceleration. OR do the newer EPE engines remedy this weakness? Have they been adequately tested on the Shornet?

Btw, does the Shornet have a long ranged A2G missile developed ala Scalp/Taurus?

IOWs, the Shornet might be the best striker around when it comes to bombing stone age defenses into a darker stone age, but a shadow of doubt lingers re. what it can do against something more modern. WHere is that damned JSF? :diablo:

USS.

I don’t know about the weights assigned to these functions. I’d presume they have weighed them equally, though my personal preference would hinge towards strike getting an edge.

Personally, I have always gone for the A2A and insane performance thing. However, in this contest, I’d have to agree – strike is equally if not more important. Like you said – Chinese S300 variants, with a distinct possibility of Pakistan getting a hand on them would require the IAF to have every esoteric option available. Add to this the proliferation of 4gen+ a/c in the neighborhood.

Superb flight performance is important too. IMHO, the Rafale qualifies best here – it offers some rather exotic stuff – A2A and A2G. THe Scalp and AASM/Hammer for starters. And the Mica IIR. This is where the Typhoon seems a tad slower in development. The Rafale already comes with an AESA. What the Rafale does is that it brings more options to the table for the operator – the rest of them, as good as they are, seems to offer more of the same stuff, all of which and more, will be (is already) available to the IAF via the MKI and Pakfa.

The Shornet would make a great striker too but I am not too certain re. its ability in A2A or even as an interceptor. It is too heavy and too slow, and i dont know if it has a long ranged (~300km) range A2G weapon. Both the Rafale/Tiffy can double as air superiority and interceptor a/c better imho.

The idea behind the MRCA it seems is increasingly to find an uber platform that offers excellent technology, high end weapons (A2A and A2G) – so it is hardly a mig-21 replacement. In effect, this will be the fall back in case there are delays/problems on the AMCA front. It had better be an a/c that can remain competitive over the next couple of decades. In all honesty, I can’t see the MiG, Gripen, F-16, or F-18 do this. Only the two large eurocanards remain.

One thing though – it might be a concern though that as of now the IAF seems to be rather lacking in its acquisitions for the smaller stuff. The Tejas needs to be brought on board ASAP.

USS.

Dont they need to integrate the helmet interface with the planes software to ensure it works with the helmet display system (to work with the missile sensor and all)?

In any case they might need to integrate the thales one for the navy.

:confused:
Me no see anything?

Perhaps the IN has the Dash integrated with its Shars via the LUSH upgrade? That would mean that the LCA and its pilots all have the Dash series, which was the plan iirc.

USS.

Considering that this news is coming from Ananth Krishnan, I would tend to believe that it is true. He isn’t a Vivek Raghuvanshi type journo. This is indeed good news. Now what is needed is to integrate one Kaveri with a MiG-29 by replacing one RD-33 and then testing it for a few hundred hours in flight. Putting it directly on a Tejas prototype may be a bit risky.

This idea I like – if the Kaveri was a little earlier in its timing we might have entertained the fantasy of Kaveri powered 29s! Perhaps the Rafale in IAF colors still has a chance.

USS.

My bet would be on India IF this burden is being sold. It would also depend on how far along plans for the IAC 2 (65 ton?) are. ONce the first ADS is built by around 2015, they could use the expertise to churn out another somewhat quickly (2020). And then top it off with a CVF (direct purchase) plus another homebuilt (in lieu of the 65 tonne IAC 2). Thus you have,

Vikramaditya, IAC 1 & 2 – 35-40 tonnes
2 X CVF (QE type) – 65 tonnes.

I base this on two reasons – there have been reports suggesting a 5 carrier force. And secondly, India’s procurement will be correlated to the the expanding PLAN counterparts. And I don’t see the chinese procuring just 1 or 2 carriers in the next 10-15 years.

USS.