Deutsche Demokratische Republik = German Democratic Republic
Bundesrepublik Deutschland = Federal Republic of Germany

Thanks, been a while since I saw those abbreviations.

Once the Luftwaffe got rid of most of the useless ex East German pilots and put ex Phantom pilots in their Mig-29 the results were interesting.

BVR or long WVR using Radar guided missiles the Eagle dominated pure and simple (for that matter so did the Phantom), the radar fitted to the Mig-29 at that point was just obsolete in comparison to the latest western systems (with the caveat that we hadn’t seen the best Russian radars fitted to the Mig-31 and Su-27) . WVR Mig-29 was lethal albeit that was in many ways more down to the AA-11 and helmet mounted sight combination. Then again the early model Mig-29 the Germans operated were almost Bingo fuel by the time they could get WVR.

What bemused the West German air force pilot community was doctrinally the East Germans favoured the old style GCI tactics of Eastern Europe and didn’t make the most of what the missile HMS gave them capability wise…then again I add a cautionary note to that conclusion: I think the Russians kept the DDR pilots on a very short leash!

In the end those early Mig-29 were designed as an affordable (even disposable) replacement for the Mig-23 and its main area for operation would of been the FEBA.

Yes, I’d imagine the 29s would have trouble vs. the Eagle in BVR. We have to also keep in mind that the German fulcrums were somewhat monkey versions – in terms of engines, and possibly radar(?).

It’d be interesting to know how IAF MiG-29s fared vs. USAF F-15s, F-16s and Adla M2k-5s. AFAIK, these 29s saw some periodic upgrades and fielded the rather capable N019, further, they tweaked the airframe a bit as well with composites and what not to reduce weight + RCS I am guessing.

to summarize

MiG-29 Spanks M2K in raw performance
MiG-29 engine thirstier but more power means less time in afterburner so range issue nullified against M2k
MiG-29 skin rougher more crudely built than M2K
MiG-29 avionics spanks M2K when actualy working

M2K spanks MiG-29 in finish

but when combining with other reports from IAF
M2K spanks MiG-29 in serviceability and uptimes
M2K spanks MiG-29 in A2G

I recall the late BHarry mentioning something like a 7:1 BVR score in favor of the fulcrum in IAF Dact (Acig.org). The N019 was much more powerful than the RDI?, and the R27 has longer legs than the Matra Super 530.

In WVR, apart from the advantages mentioned by AM Masand in the above article, let us not forget the incredible advantage provided by the Archer/HMS combo – something that USAF F-16s found rather painful vs. Luftwaffe 29s.

Overall, pure A2A performance, BVR/WVR, the fulcrum comes out on top vs. both the M2k and even the F-16.

Multirole and A2G, however, the other two are clearly ahead.

Serviceability is a draw with a marginal advantage to the teen/M2k. The fulcrum’s complaints were mainly due to the break up of the FSU. It is not as much an issue today.

That canopy looks soo MKIish!

That MiG-29 upgrade seems to have a real small nose cone, what gives? Trainer?

Regarding Russia offering the Su-35 OR China expressing interest in it:

This might just be another clever trick by the sneaky Russkis to get more of the Indian cake. To “compensate” for givng Fra the Rafale. :diablo:

Russia: “Hey lookie – the Chinese want our Su-35, and you know we could soo use another sale, but of course, we prefer our strategic partners to buy it instead of China”

India: “Damn! The last thing we need is for China to get Su-35s, fine we’ll buy another 40 MKIs – our sqd strength needs to come up anyways – forks over the $$s”.

USS.

Sorry to belabor the MiG-29 – RD33 – fuel hog discussion, but I beg to disagree – the RD 33s seem rather economical, and despite having 2 rather powerful engines and almost the same amount of internal fuel capacity as compared to the F-16 or Mirage 2000, it still gave about 15-1600km on internal fuel range.

[kapedani mode on] But I don’t think there are S ducts there – too much of compressor face is visible [/kapedani mode off] ::)