After all that ranting you still haven’t addressed the one pont he raised which was the subject of my initial post – the LCA is significantly over budget despite the budget goalposts having been moved further and further.

COuld you point out what the budget of the LCA was and how it has been over run? What was the amount allocated and what was the over run by? I think one of the gents points out that the initial study was granted some Rs. 500 odd crore, which would be equivalent to USD 200 million circa 1985 @ Rs. 25 : $ 1.

DId anyone really expect a fully capable 4th gen aircraft to fly with that kind of budget? As per the interview posted by Ankush, it seems as though the funding was as follows:
1980s – Rs. 560 Crore – $ 200 million
1993 – Rs. 2188 Crore – $ 700 million
2001 – Rs. 3300 Crore – $ 800 million

Total Cost of Development = Rs. 6048 crore, approximately $ 1.7 billion. Overbudget or not, that is seems like good bang for the buck.

USS.

What is the range limited to in this mode or what is the reduction in payload an Su-30MKI can carry because of any extra fuel etc it may have to hold?

What would be the reason for turning one of your most destructive assets into a fuel carrier?

It is great they did it but what use is it?

I am with Ankush on this. It offers an option and that itself means a lot to tacticians/planners. The IAF will have close to 280 MKI spread out in a number of locations; until the IFR tanker fleet increases, this option will allow a degree of freedom/versatility. I’d like to see a few MKI plumbed for about 3 EFTs though – this’d make it that much more useful as a tanker – 15000-18000kg of fuel at MTOW.

USS.

Thx for the info.

Its still unclear for me, is the current Mig-29K featuring this RD-33MK engine?

Or some other upgrade series RD-33?

Thanks

current Mig-29K = RD-33MK

uss

http://secretdefense.blogs.liberation.fr/defense/2009/12/carton-plein-pour-le-rafale-lors-dexercices-aux-emirats.html

Merchet was at the press conference too.

Now it’s clear that what some try to make look like a mere rumor is in fact an official speech by the AdA (lieutenant-colonel Grandclaudon).

6 encounters between Rafale and F-22. Rafale lost only once. It doesn’t mean that it won the other encounters.

@ Scorpion : i understand your PoV… But i’d be pleased to read a RAF or Luftwaffe, or Italian or Spanish pilot saying very officially that they beat Rafale easily.
“Extremely gratifying” results doesn’t mean “we won”.

French pilots apparently aren’t afraid to look ridiculous.

This Rafale vs Tiffy and Rafale vs F-22 thing is v.interesting. So far, the Adla seems to be the only one with the cojones to say it straight. Personally, for me the source is pretty darned good, can’t expect much more.

The Tiffy boys seem to be just trying to split hair where they can – must be hard of course, considering that the results seem bloody straightforward. First it is, “ohh the TIffy is marginally or even distinctly better than the Rafale, A2A”; now it is about, ” ohh the ROE might be screwed up” and so on and so forth. And then there was that Jon Lake riposte to Peter Collins’ favorable impression of the Rafale, sheesh!

So far all that has been forthcoming from the Phoon folks is a LOT of tall claims from a variety of unnamed sources! Pathetic. All the Tiffy supporters ever manage to do is quote unnamed buffoons re. the worth of the a/c. I remember reading stories about how RAF pilots had smug smiles having “toasted” the flanker in an exercise (source – some bub’s letter to the editor!). Other stories include thumping the F-22 in the US.

Still another instance is that of the oh so fabulous stealth characteristics of the bird – supposedly best after the F-22! Some people were putting up outrageous claims of some 100ths of 1 msq. Then that Hamilton bloke mentions it to be 1/10th of an F-15, and more recently another dude put it at 1/3rd of a Tornado – hardly flattering or close to being “second best after the F-22”! No wonder the Rafale pilots detected it earlier than they would another Rafale.

And then there were those comprehensive and rigorous JOUST simulations! Good grief! People are not stupid, sooner or later it becomes obvious – bunch of baloney and hype. We know its a solid bird, but it hardly offers any distinctive advantages over the Rafale or a Su-30/35.

CONCLUSION:
Take an extra strength dose of salt every time anyone says anything extraordinary about the Tiffy. The Gripen folks better watch out – their PR dept. seems to be dangerously close to being affected by the phoon disease too.

USS.

When we look at aircraft specs available in public domain, we normally get 2 sorts of speed. Sea level and at altitude. Whether LCA was loaded or not, its besides the point here, I think. It did better than on previous ocassions, crossed another milestone, and that’s what is worth noting.

PS. If another aircraft (lets say Gripen) is stated as Mach 1.2 capable at sea level, does this mean it would do so fully loaded (MTOW)? Or is their a typical standard load at which the speed at sea level/altitude is normally given, i.e. normal A2A configuaration etc. I would assume its closer to the latter???

I’d agree, in fact i’d guess that top speeds are achieved without any stores whatsoever. I think most of Mach 2+ speeds were achieved without stores. If the Tejas managed > 1350kmph at low level, its pretty impressive. FWIW, there were rumors of it crossing the sound barrier without AB, I wonder if the higher thrust engine, esp. the EJ200 will enable it to SC?

USS.

The HMD will most likely be TopOwl as it has been selected for IN 29K.

One interesting part of the upgrade will be addition of an extra hardpoint on each wing, The current Mig-29 has 3 hard point under each wings.

SOAR and SOLO is perhaps too radical , but will the addition of SOAR and SOLO will eliminate the need for Mig-29UPG to go for Lightening 3 and MAWS ?

Dunno about the SOLO or SOAR, which are the MAWS and LWS as Scorp pointed out. THe function of the Litening LDP is done by the counterpart of the OLS UEM located on the intake (IIRC it is called the OLS-K). I think it is not standard on the MiG-29K even thought the FLIR is the same (OLS UEM).

What LDP (if any) does the MiG-29K have? My guess is that the IAF baaz will get the same (or of course the Litening considering it is almost fleetwide with the MKI/Jags and upg floggers).

USS.

Wonder if the IAF has expressed any interest? It has plenty of experience with fulcrums and can probly upgrade them to SMT standards in house. Could do with the additional numbers too.

USS.

You ‘re right, but in a real war, you can’t always avoid the encounter… If i were India i would use mixed packages , i wouldn’t send the Mirage alone to intercept chinese (russian or russian copies) aircrafts. IAF has on her own russian aircrafts and the PAK Fa in the future. I think this offers versatile combinations that can allow to exploit each type’s advantages and minimize the defects. I think versatility, clever tactics and clever use of resources is the only way to fight someone like China that outnumbers you and has a huge territory, where you practically can’t hope for significant blows on infrastructure by deep penetration. China hasn’t just strategic depth. It has almost hyper-super-strategic depth. 😀 All Indian tactics should focus to near border operations and try to use cleverly what they have to butcher as much as they can the enemy airforce.

In a defensive posture, India should be able to hold its own comfortably enough, especially if nothing happens for the next 5 years. By then, it’ll have enough BVR (ARH) fighters (500?) + AWACS to make things v.uncomforable.

In a defensive scenario, even MiG-21 bisons will give flankers headaches. The Su-30MKIs coupled with upgraded fulcrums/jags/m2ks can be used for counter attack while the Tejas, Bisons, and some upgraded fulcrums and mirages hold the line both against the PLAAF and in case the situation turns really sour, PAF as well.

USS.