Ahem..cant the same be said about other cos as well?;)

Dammit you are enjoying this far too much. :diablo: But i’ll take the bait. Don’t tell me theyre waiting for an EL 2052 to materialize on the F18 e/f:eek: After that i960 chip scandal, doubt it if the US is going to get any piece of the pie. Look at the army chopper deal, sudden change from bell to eurocopter. But this GOI is surely cozing up to the Americans so you never know.
The Eurobirds are expected to get their respective AESAs operational only around 2012, so it better not be that the MRCA deal is waiting that long 😡 unless of course, they too opt for the EL 2052 for the Indian versions (highly unlikely since the euros, esp. France is most reluctant to bring about crazy multivendor modifications to their a/c)
Nope, my take is that the Russians benefit the most by delaying the deal…look how far they have brought the MiG 29 just for the MRCA deal in the last 2 years (from payload/range increases, 3D TVC, to fancy sensors, active jammers and even AESA), I wouldn’t be surprised if they suddenly pitched a MiG 35, which looks just like the 1.42. with AL 31FPs :dev2:

Ultimately, price will be a major factor. If its truly upwards of a $ 10 bln deal, the Americans or Euros will get it (cause only they are that expensive). If its around $ 5-6 billion, the Russians will bag it cause the others simply can’t afford to sell 126 of their super duper gizmoshizmo aircraft that cheap.

Regards,
USS.

Defence deployment
The ELT/568 unit covers bands H-J (on board section) and E-G (podded section). Two active-phased array antennas located in the wings’ leading edges cover the front hemisphere, whereas the third, located in the root of the starboard tailfin, covers the rear hemisphere. The pod, installed under the portside outer wing pylon, has two antennas front and rear. Russian options for jamming units have not been declared, but one may be the SAP-518, made by Kaluga’s Research Institute of Radio Engineering (KNIRTI), which also includes a high-band built-in section and a medium-band podded section. The MiG-35 will receive two 16-round 50 mm flare dispensers installed inside the tail beams close to the engines. MiG also announced that French systems have been considered for the MiG-35 self-defence suite, but did not provide details.

Piotr Butowski

Does that mean that the SPJ has to be carried externally? Can someone confirm this?

Regards,
USS.

Wingspans….

Tu-4 141 ft
Tu-80 142 ft
Tu-85 183 ft
Tu-95 142 ft
Tu-160 182 ft

B-36 230 ft
B-52 185 ft

Hughes H-4 (Spruce Goose) 320 ft

An-225 Mriya – 290 ft

Ken

It is interesting to note that while the Spruce Goose had a larger wingspan, the Mriya is considerably longer, same difference between the B-52 and the Bear. I wonder why? Surprisingly the H4 is even shorter than the Boeing 747B.

Regards,
USS.

Picking up the pieces
By Gen (Retd) Chuck Yeager USAF, Yeager: Jul, ’85

When we arrived in Pakistan in 1971, the political situation between the Pakistanis and the Indians was really tense over Bangladesh, or East Pakistan, as it was known in those days, and Russia was backing India with tremendous amounts of new airplanes and tanks. The US and China were backing the Pakistanis. My job was military advisor to the Pakistani air force, headed by Air Marshal Rahim Khan, who had been trained in Britain by the Royal Air Force, and was the first Pakistani pilot to exceed the speed of sound. He took me to their different fighter groups and I met their pilots, who knew me and were really pleased that I was there. They had about 500 airplanes, more then half of them Sabres and 104 Starfighters, a few B-57 bombers, and about a hundred Chinese Mig 19s. They were really good, aggressive dogfighters and proficient in gunnery and air combat tactics. I was damned impressed. Those guys just lived and breathed flying.
One of my first jobs there was to help them put US sidewinders on their Chinese Mig 19s, which were 1.6 Mach twin-engine airplanes that carried three thirty-millimeter cannons. Our government furnished them with the rails for the sidewinders. They bought the missiles and all the checkout equipment that went with them, and it was one helluva interesting experience watching their electricians wiring up American missiles on a Chinese Mig. I worked with their squadrons and helped them develop combat tactics. The Chinese Mig was one hundred percent Chinese-built and was made for only one hundred hours of flying before it had to be scrapped – a disposable fighter good for one hundred strikes. In fairness, it was an older plane in their inventory, and I guess they were just getting rid of them. They delivered spare parts, but it was a tough airplane to work on; the Pakistanis kept it flying for about 130 hours.

War broke out only a couple of months after we had arrived, in late November 1971, when India attacked East Pakistan. The battle lasted only three days before East Pakistan fell. India’s intention to annex East Pakistan and claim it for themselves. But the Pakistanis counterattacked. Air Marshal Rahim Khan laid a strike on the four closest Indian air fields in the western part of India, and wiped out a lot of equipment. At that point, Indra Gandhi began moving her forces towards West Pakistan, and President Nixon sent her an ultimatum: An invasion of West Pakistan would bring the US into the conflict. Meanwhile, all the Muslim countries rallied around Pakistanis and began pouring in supplies and manpower. China moved in a lot of equipment while Russia backed the Indians all the way. So, it really became a kind of surrogate war – the Pakistanis, with US training and equipment, versus the Indians, mostly Russian trained, flying Soviet airplanes.

The Pakistanis whipped their asses in the sky, but it was the other way around in the ground war. The air war lasted about two weeks, and the Pakistanis scored a three-to-one ratio, knocking out 102 Russian-made Indian jets and losing thirty-four airplanes of their own. I’m certain about the figures because I went out several times a day in a chopper and counted the wrecks below. I counted wrecks on Pakistani soil, documented them by serial numbers, identified the components such as engines and rocket pods, and new equipment on newer planes like the Soviet SU-7 fighter-bomber and the Mig 21J, their latest supersonic fighter. The Pakistani army would cart off these items for me, and when the war ended, it took two big American Air Force cargo lifters to carry all those parts back to the States for analysis by our intelligence division.

I didn’t get involved in the actual combat because that would’ve been too touchy, but I did fly around and pick up shot down Indian pilots and take them back to prisoner-of-war camps for questioning. I interviewed them about the equipment they had been flying and the tactics their Soviet advisors taught them to use. I wore a uniform or flying suit all the time, and it was amusing when those Indians saw my name tag and asked, “Are you the Yeager who broke the sound barrier?” They couldn’t believe I was in Pakistan or understand what I was doing there. I told them, “I’m the American Defense Rep here. That’s what I’m doing.”

Qsaark,
chuck yeager is all fine and dandy, but you do realize that he is (as he admits it himself) clearly on the Pakistani side, right? Moreover, he is totally anti russian. At the height of the coldwar anything close to the russians was automatically inferior to some, so in this case was the the IAF.

the article is a lot of bravado, probly put on for show to keep up morale on the Pakistani side. If it was not for the intervention of the big superpowers, there might not have been a Pakistan today. :rolleyes:

I’m not saying this cause of some deep hatred against Pakistani public or Chinese in general, I know some of them very closely and finer folk you can’t find. but there are certain political ideologies that are inherently flawed for they go against the very core of human values and trying to present these in a favorable light is equally ridiculous. Sooner or later the whole thing by its very nature backfires.

Regards,
USS.

Poverty stricken manpower did not make India an empire and in fact made it part of someone else’s empire. Colonial battles of the British usually involved both sides sustaining very light casualties because the poverty-stricken natives simply broke and ran after a few were shot by rifles or blown up by a small naval cannon dragged ashore from a Royal Navy warship. The battles of the British conquest of India were prime examples of this. Fifty thousand Indians basically melted away from the battlefield at Plassey before several hundred Europeans. There were no mass slaughter just a lot of people running away from conflict.

you are a flamer and thats your entire intent here. India was far from poor when the Brits first came to the subcontinent, the famed phrase “riches of the Indies” ought to give you an indication. As far as battles were concerned, the Brits only made headway into the Indian coasts after the Angre Navy somewhat dwindled, and this took 2 centuries of persistent effort by would be colonial powers such as the Brits and the Portuguese. Just because all (from the most powerful to the least minnow) imperialists had a free go in China (what has been aptly described as the “rape of china” in history texts), doesn’t mean it happened elsewhere as well.

As for China in Korea, indoctrinated communist armies like the Chinese and the North Vietnamese were among the few that can effectively use a poverty stricken population.

Riiight :rolleyes: Some more “wisdom” from an indoctrinated mind. Commie armies will automatically have poor morale by virtue of the foot soldier realizing that he is being used as cannon fodder. Is it any surprise therefore, that armies run by two bit dictators have historically always failed to win major wars against armies that come from freer cultures? :rolleyes: OTOH, history is replete with tales of the underdog (with poor numbers, supplies, arms etc) winning against larger numbers – From the tales of early islamic conquests to that of the American War of Independence to that of the Maratha’s heroic victories against the mighty mughals.

To be perfectly honest, the impact of air power is practically nil.

good grief! tell that to the USN/USAF, IAF and all the other forces that are stacking up on the good stuff.

Pakistan have pretty much won the air war in each but had very limited effect on the ground. No amount of air power could change the logistical nightmare of having the eastern half on your country separated by enemy territory while fighting a full scale civil war.

Some more drivel! In 1971, the airwar was completely dominated by the IAF. Its a real shame when ignorant people in cloistered, walled up countries get access to the net, we start seeing completely uneducated opinions…as a result the overall level of discussion truly reaches a nadir.

USS.

When did Klub get operational , and when did Brahmos get operational ? Do we have a sub launched Brahmos operational till date ? Klub is outright purchase , Brahmos is joint development , Klub is supersonic at the last 50 ~ 60 km , Brahmos is supersonic all the way . Klub has both anti-surface, ani-ship and anti-sub variant , Brahmos is anti-surface and anti-ship , besides to what trident has mentioned

Y’all do know that the russians are now touting the Klub (airlaunched version) now, right? Kaliber or something IIRC. On MiG 29k/ Su 30 etc. The Brahmos airlaunched is also being tested on the mKI. These missiles are very interesting, I wonder if an MKI or 2 could fire a salvo – 2 kloobs + 1 brahmos? Would make it a little tricky to intercept perhaps?

USS.

Does that mean they will try and keep SHAR operating until 2012 as well?

IN Shars are getting some extensive upgrades – EL 2032 radar with derby/python combo for A2A, newer EW fit and so on. I’m betting they will continue beyond the Viraat, possibly on the ADS. IN the A2G role perhaps some Israeli ASM (popeye) might replace or complement the Sea Eagles. Should be a competent beast in the IOR.

REgards,
USS.

Scorpion,

I agree on most of what you said, just a couple of points:

What except RAMs is offered as RCS reduction measure for the MiG-35?

dunno but russian RCS reduction techniques involve extensive use of RAM, heat signature reduction and includes a degree of composites as well for the MiG35. I’ve seen claims of rcs reduction from 4-500% to 10X and even greater. There have been claims of reducing the RCS of the flanker to 3msq (considering that it is humungous bird), one would have to admit this is an achievement. However, in the context of the EF 2000, the difference ought not to be much when both a/c use external loads.

But you have to consider that the teen series are slowly reaching their max growth potential, they feature now often similar systems as the Typhoon does in its basic configuration, but the Typhoon is at the beginning of his service life.

This indeed is a valid point. Theres not much you can do with the legacy birds. You never know though – the F16 XL comes to mind :diablo:

But the MiG-35 is neither fully developed nor operational. An AESA is under developement and testing for the Typhoon as well as for nearly all advanced fighters. PESA is more advanced to MSA in terms of antenna technology, but a radar does not only consist of an antenna alone.

Check on the AESA of the MiG vs Typhoon. As far as PESA vs slotted array, its going to be uphill for a slotted array to match pesa performance under most circumstances. Further the Bars has some major power behind its antenna as well.

Regards,
USS.