uss noviceSwerve, thanks for making the point and frankly at that.
The US industrys products are second to none in the world. The US Govts policies, leave a lot to be desired.
I think the Americans have an inside track in this race (just my opinion). Look at this: an additional 40 MKIs is definitely on the cards as per latest news reports, will find link if it hasn’t been posted in the IAF thread, the IN will probly buy a bunch of MiG 29ks (about which we have seen some press). Thats close to 80+ aircraft. That leaves the Russians somewhat placated and plenty of room for 126 additional birds, which can be American.
If they don’t buy American jets, I hope they just buy all MiG 35s. Go French only if they scuttle plans to sell Marlins to Pak or Raffles to China.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceIndia needs a tech edge and who is going to give it to them……………..she needs either the US or Europe!
The tech gap is being addressed especially with Israeli inputs. I seriously doubt the Europeans can offer anything that a combination of Israel+Russian+India can’t produce.
The only country in any position to offer some sort of a tech advantage is the U.S. and they know it. The F18 e/f for all its flaws, still offers a fully mature AESA technology that none of the others can…the russians/israelis perhaps, but the captor/amsar seem a little further away. Plus it has an engine that works with the LCA.
I think the Euros too realize this and thats why we don’t see any shouting from that end. The French gave up as soon as the American option became a real possibility. IMHO, they seem to have already thrown in the towel as far as the MRCA is concerned. The E2k never had much of a chance, same as the Gripen.
My guess – the deal will be split between F18s and MiG 35s, perhaps 200 a/c total.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceEspecially since it’s no longer built, & isn’t being offered. 😀
Oh yeah, that too! 😀
Regards,
USS.
uss novicethere will be some startup cost to get the whole ecosystem started again. but compared to Eurofighter or Rafale unit cost (need to recover R&D investments), the M2K restart shouldnt be very costly…its R&D has been recovered long ago and cost can be amortized over a large airframe count like say 80 M2K-9-I (and 50 Rafale)
it will lack the raw performance, RCS, payload and range of rafale but with suitable avionics like spectra, meteor be able to hold its own in the medium range role.
The Mirage 2005-5/9 is an excellent multirole aircraft, however, in the face of competition such as Rafale, MiG 35 , F18 e/f, it falls a little short. Even if it is rafalized to a great extent (adding spectra and IRST), its TWR still leaves much to be desired. It needs more power and a longer ranged missile would also help.
IMHO, its at the very bottom of the pole as of now.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceUSS Kitty Hawk, a conventional powered 60,000 tons a/c carrier, is scheduled for decomissioning in 2008.
Any chances that it could be looked out for the Indian Navy?
I know Admiral Gorshkov & ADS are in the pipeline, but this would be a one time opportunity to have a carrier of this class with CAT, provided US is willing to sell.
I am trying to think of ramifications of such a deal to the Indian Navy. I have heard of the time it takes for the Indian establishment to decide and act: the ship will not be in Indian colors for another 10 years or so, even if such a deal takes place, if ever.
Your thoughts please?
I’d rather see the Invincible in IN colors. The Viraat could be used in a lighter role, with helis and perhaps a plethora of missiles (somewhat like a heavy bruiser cruiser), or may be even in an LPH role, thereby giving it a bit of a break. The IN Shars could be used off the Invincible for quite some time.
JMT
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceDont be stupid. Official bonhomie and trade relations apart, China is arming India’s rival Pakistan, and is itself India’s strategic rival. Furthermore, China still contests Indian territory. In such a clime, it would be downright silly of India to depend upon China for any sort of military equipment. To twist this into “Indians have irrational hatred of China” is ludicrous. Besides which, online chinese fora on the net drip with contempt for India and Indians, but it would still be unwise to lump all Chinese into the same basket based upon what these hyper patriots on the net do.
Good observation nick, subtle references such as these show a deep rooted bias that is often times ignored especially when mixed with an amount of logical information.
Regards,
USS.
uss novicelol are you American?, juss wonderin.
aight aight geez i hate to ask peoples about such things maybe too much british manners? lol
I asked indirectly, i wont push any further as it would look okward
If I tell you, I’d have to kill you 😀 But since you’re still young and have great hopes for latetia, I’ll let you know…i’m part American, part Indian and fully human, I hope. 🙂
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceIM me in MSN, We’ll talk there.
Plus he havent posted there anymore.
Joey,
Yup, I’d agree with Ray and Hawk, make sure you push the issue and get the dinero, also, its necessary because it would make it clear that NIH is not a myth in certain circles.
Regarding the picture above being different from the PADE interceptor, I think they are are the same. The longer one (the one that it doesn’t match up with) is the first missile (target) to be launched in the IBN video, the 2nd launch is what you want to look out for, and even though the footage is short and a little from afar, the overall contour of the second missile matches with the India Today/Guardian pic shown above.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceIts good for them, more they gets more will our MOD’s pocket open.
but seriously its good for them.
star49 i wonder, why India stopped developing AWACS with not having a suitable airframe.
I think they have this in mind, btw isnt it MTA? or MTS and MTA are diff?
What is the MTA’s a) range and b)endurance – prerequisites to a good AEW/AWACs platform?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceI had a question regarding the Mig-29k. The empty wieght is said to be around 11000 kg. While the maximum fuel load is about 5240 kg.
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/russia/airdef/mig-29.htm
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/MiG-29K.htmlThe maximum take off weight is about 22400kg from BR site. Which means the max weapon load should be about
22400-5240-11000 = 6160kg. But BR only puts the max weapon load at 5500. Why this discrepancy? Is 5500 the max bring back load (seems high) or the max take-off load from carrier.
A 6000kg+ load sounds fine for a MiG 35, it would naturally be lower for the MiG 29k because of the additional structural reinforcement required for carrier ops. Either the payload or the fuel load will suffer. JMT.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceI agree with star49..those 20 odd M2ks are too small a number to be kept in the EAF fleet..they should look to sell those and try to consolidate the number of types they have. the MiG-29SMT is good enough to be a replacement for those M2ks and to be the second major combat type after the F-16.
Either that or do a 3 way deal – India turns in their current MiG 29s for a bunch of Su 30Mkis and Egyptian M2ks. Russians upgrade them and offer them to the Egyptians at a discount.
Russians make $$$, Egyptians and Indians fulfill their needs AND reduce number of types in inventory.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceThose sunglasses rock.. sadly i dont look good with my meterosexual face..
my dad have 2 of them… from late 70’s…
one is made from the German Glass B2 its deep deep green , he looks cool.. another is a similar type of deep pink glass which were used to manufactured in Britain in late 70’s…
what the devil’s “meterosexual”, jeez I must be getting old.
USS.
uss novice124 tanks, 126 jets to be acquired by 2009: Minister
Home > Nation
124 tanks, 126 jets to be acquired by 2009: Minister
Chandigarh, Oct 10: India will acquire 126 multi-role combat jets for the Air Force and 124 main battle tanks for the Army by 2009, Minister of state for Defence Production Rao Inderjit Singh said here today.The letters of intent for the fighters have already been received from US, French, Swedish and British companies and it will take a few months for the request for proposals to be issued, Singh told a meet-the-press programme here.
“We will induct the fighters in phases,” he said, adding the Indian Air Force’s ageing Mig-21s are scheduled to be phased out by 2011.
So what is he saying:
1) All 126 a/c to be delivered and inducted by 2009 (must be on dope)
2) A/c induction will start by 2009?
3) a/c induction will start after 2009?
I’m guessing its the 2nd choice, but boy they sure make it ambiguous.
Regards,
USS>
uss noviceSo, France is going to sell India the AdlAs first squadron of Rafales, which have only just entered service? The entire French air force stock of Rafales? What’s this bloke smoking? I want some!
And then, France is going to sell India Mirage 2000H which France doesn’t have, since the Mirage 2000H was a model specific to India, which France has never operated. Yep, this blokes connection with reality is pretty tenuous. His grasp of logic is equally frail. Why would a Mirage 2000 have to go through a lengthy decommissioning, but not a Rafale?
Heh Heh, welcome to what is sometimes referred to as DDM (Native Dork Media), what do you mean “tenous grasp of reality”, there is no such thing Indian media is highly philosophical, they fully subscribe to the idea : “you make your own reality” 😀
Its more likely that IAF gets 20 M2k-5/9: 12 Qatari & 8 French PLUS
20 Su 30 MKI (as requested by ACM in his whine to the Def Min).
40 modern jets in a short while, plus good bonhomie with traditional allies is not a bad idea at all. This also frees the current suck up govt to buy American stuff, which it is dying to do.
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceIts not just experience in maintaining the MiG-29s but investment, they are actually turning out entire lines of spares.
Anyways, coming to modernisation-
Currently, the IAF has 39 MKIs + 18 Su-30 K’s (which will be replaced with new build MKIs)
Its going to be adding approx a sq. of MKIs a year @ 14 aircraft (you can bulk up the numbers to the standard 18-22 over time)
17 new build Two seater Jaguars are on order (this coupled with the news about the IAF seeking ~ 20 Stand off Jammers) shows that these are for SEAD. These are top of the line strike aircraft, with full PGM, Night attack capability and Litening capable. These will most likely be grouped into a dedicated unit.
40 Jaguars & 40 MiG-27s are currently being upgraded to the same standards. These will basically boost all five Jaguar squadrons by providing them a core of 8 aircraft/ Squadron which can act as formation leaders for PGM strikes/ designation/ dedicated EW aircraft (the Jaguars are already PGM capable, and the 1553 Databus makes new weapon integration possible)
The MiG-27s will similarly provide night attack capability and have been demonstrated to use buddy lasing from a UAV for LGB strikes.
Apart from that, the Bison upgrade should be complete by this year end, with round ~ 120 Bisons with R-73E/R-77 AAMs, a modern countermeasures & EW system, and significant PGM ability with KAB-250/500, KH-25 series ARMs for SEAD work. Another year or two, and all the maint. & servicing facilities should come online for an average uptime of around 80% from the current 60% level.
Apart from the above the IAF has Three squadrons each of Mirage 2000s and MiG-29s both of which are fairly modern for the threats it faces. The latter have updated N019 radars & were getting the new MKI series Tarang RWR as well. The Mirages have Super 530 D BVR capability & have seen periodic upgrade over the years, having been at the front of the IAF’s PGM and EW capability.
In IAF exercises, Su-30k’s, MKIs, Jaguars, MiG-27s have all been seen with Elta 8222’s, whereas the Mirages have been seen with Remora pods.
All the aircraft mentioned above are also IFR capable, with 6 IFRs already in IAF service.
All in all, the IAF has a fairly modern “core” – and this is excluding the 3 Jaguar squadrons of DARIN-II vintage which have decent avionics as it is, the 4 Squadrons of MiG-27s which can be used for tac strike even without upgrade, and the remaining squadrons of MiG-23BNs and 21 M/MF’s- the latter of which are on the way out.
Apart from this, its also ordered 7 New CAR’s (180 km range) from BEL/DRDO, numbers of Indra-2 gapfillers, Master T AESA from Thales, is currently evaluating medium power radars for a total 18 to be manufactured @ BEL, theres another 39 radars being developed for low level applications..a datalink project was underway (the Ks/ MKIs already have a datalink), and the IACCS should be implemented within a couple of years, its currently underway.
Also, the IAF currently has a sq. of UAVs (Searcher -IIs), plus Herons, and operates dedicated ELINT Boeing 737s with local gear, and has ordered 18 Batteries of Spyders with 18 radars (100km range), and ~ 15km missiles (Python-V/ Derby).
In other words, the IAF modernisation is not going badly at all.
Excellent summary Nick. Puts a lot of things into perspective.
Regards,
USS.
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