uss noviceWill find it and post later..
Meanwhile..http://www.indianexpress.com/story/11926.html
New Delhi, September 2:The Centre has approved signing of a defence cooperation agreement with Germany that will provide transfer of German technology in weapons production. The deal would be signed during the forthcoming visit of Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee to Germany and France beginning tomorrow.
The proposed agreement would provide for cooperation on a wide range of defence issues. A related development was the green signal for the design and development of the light combat helicopter by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited. A budget of Rs 340 crore has been earmarked for it.
WOuld love to see some Siemens AIP modules on the 209 upgrades and perhaps even the Scorpene? :diablo:
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceNot bad at all is an understatement to say the least!! , have you seen the size of the radar and the size of the radome of the viper , it is tiny as compared to the F-15C’s etc etc and to get that type of performance and still pack enough cooling to work out the extra heat of the AESA is truely a great acheivment . Just look at how many operational radars can get that range (70-80nm for 1m^2) .
Jeez BIO, didn’t mean to get you all riled up..of course it is a great achievement, didn’t know you were that big a viper fan, otherwise woulda given the thing 5 stars and all. 😀 But y’know AESA and all I frankly expected something more outlandish for detection range (terrible influence of all those fancy claims one hears by fanboy posters every now and again). Hmm, wonder how a PESA would compare in this little group. RBE 2 or Bars 29 or Zhuk MSF (or is it MFE?)
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceSo the AESA APG 80 has a detection range of around 110-130 km for a 1msq target. Not bad at all. The Zhuk M ~ 120 km for 5 msq target and RDY 2 = 130 km for 5 msq target. Very good.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceThe IAF wanted jaguar over Mirage F-1 and draken and they stood by their grounds on it and got it. Unless the manufactures of the aircraft refuse to supply the planes, IAF would go with what it wants and not what GOI wants. Franly I don’t want to see an american plane in IAF colors.
How looong ago was that? Who formed the Indian govt then? WOuldn’t be surprised if it was Morarji and not the congress (which by the way had the Iron Lady at helm in those days). In any case, at least you didn’t have the current hodgepodge of leaders. also who were the contenders then? France Vs France/UK Vs Sweden (are you sure the Russians didn’t pitch something?). No big names there, not much armtwisting possible. You are talking about the US of A here, makes a slight difference y’know. If Uncle Sam wants to cavort with you, not many govts just outright refuse, least of all one such as UPA alliance which has toed the American line from the very outset. Need I remind you of the Agni III fiasco again? even in more powerful days (as during the time of PVN Rao, when the U.S. effectively prevented Nuke testing) the Congress govt. was strongly influenced by the U.S.
Gone are the days when India had some semblance of leaders with some semblance of spine.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceHowever i am of the personal opinion that the money for TVC is better spent elsewhere.
What and no funky manouvers? Thats tantamount to treason bud, I wanted mine painted just like the MiG 35 @ RIAT too :p But seriously, if the F18 e/f ever gets into a dog fight, the TVC might be of some use.
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceI am not sure why you seem to think IAf will go for US fighter. I am pretty sure that will not be the case. F-16 will never be selected by IAf and F-18 despite the aesa is a so-so product. I see this MMRCA going the euro way. If they can accept 126 US made planes they might as well accept LCA with F414 or better yet scrap the air force.
Q, I just posted my line of reasoning like 2 times dude! Who is IAf to select what it wants? They are a part of the GOI, no? So GOI sets a bunch of parameters for them to choose from, the parameters are called f16 and f18 😀 The IAf is getting into a desperate situation – some birds are better than no birds they feel, so they say to paraphrase said ACM: “we have lived with a whole bunch of varities in our inventory so far, a small addition here and there makes no difference”. The AESA and the fabulous technology will be the excuse (ahem “reason”) offered to the public.
All this of course if the nuke deal goes through. Seriously doubt the Euro birds have a chance…look at the Defmin’s recent visit to france, some hard words said there re: “strategic partnership”. Why would the French offer the $ 1.2 bln Marlins to Pak considering they know that would jeopardize the $ 9bln MrCA deal? Same with Saab offering Erieyes to the friendly neighbor. It seems when America throws its weight only Russians might be heavier 😉
JMT
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceThis can also be considered then –
Jane’s International Defence Review
May 13, 2005A Boeing Phantom Works team is working on the design of a stealthier version of the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, known internally as the Block 3. The design is being studied as a hedge against further delays with the Lockheed Martin F-35C Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), which has already slipped by at least a year.
Block 3 studies are being led by the Phantom Works’ low-observable (LO) team, headed by Alan Wiechmann. (Super Hornets are now being delivered in the Block 2 configuration, with a revised nose to accommodate the Raytheon APG-79 radar.) The basic Super Hornet already incorporates some LO technology, including edge alignments, swept inlets and treated blocker vanes in front of the engines, and the Phantom Works has been working since the early 1990s on ways to reduce the radar cross-section (RCS) of conventional aircraft and external stores. Boeing engineers acknowledge that the Block 3 would not be as stealthy as the JSF, and state that there are no plans to change the external shape of the aircraft, but assert that even today’s aircraft has more LO technology in it than is generally recognised.
Meanwhile, US Navy (USN) Super Hornet programme manager Captain Don Gaddis disclosed at the Avalon air show that the USN has changed it s future force mix. Previously, it planned to field 20 squadrons of F/A-18E/Fs, a fleet of EA-18G jamming aircraft and 20 squadrons of JSFs. Now, however, the USN plans to operate 22 F/A-18E/F squadrons and 18 F-35C squadrons. The change will not make any immediate difference to aircraft purchases, Capt Gaddis said. The reduction in JSF numbers will not take effect until the end of the programme, while the extra Super Hornet squadrons will be filled by higher utilisation of the basic aircraft and by rationalising test and training assets.
Sounds good to me! God knows what they “want” and what they’ll offer. Seriously though, Indian Forces have never courted the U.S. as we see today (at least not in recent memory). The ACM was recently in the States to check out NC layout, they wanna participate in Red Flag, were invited to check out JSF first flight, checked out SoopaHornets @ Farnborough, F16s in Israel apart from reglar cope this and that. Plenty of newfound bonhomie there, you’d think they were in love or something :diablo: what say you? Heck, if they come without strings, why not? Make mine an F18 e/f mk3 without the carrier gear please. Any chance of hooking up TVC nozzles on this bird? I’m a HUGE fan of fancy manouvers! 😀
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceNo.
That’s a really great idea, taking a 25 year-old technology demonstrator & turning it into a fighter. Replace all the sub-systems that are no longer made (probably all of them). Translate all the original drawings (if they still exist) into the modern CAD equivalents. Then start developing it into an operational aircraft. They’d have to start more or less from scratch. I wonder what they expect the IAF to do for all the years that will take? And what’s the point? I doubt if it would save any time or money compared to developing a completely new aircraft.
I hope you told them what a silly idea it is. What next? Revive the Mirage 4000? The TSR.2? The CF-105?
Swerve, Bio,
You raise an excellent point – they need these birds asap as interim fighters. Makes lots of sense.. but i’m afraid doesn’t jive with reality. At closer look you will find that originally the MRCA purchase intended just what you guys are talking about, now it is a different ball game. It seems anything could be offered – from customized F18 e/fs, Rafales, EF2000s to MiG 35s and MiG 5th gen birds, to God knows what else. A long way from the original idea of bulking up on M2k-5 don’t you think? Under the circumstances, the F16 thats on offer might very well be a highly customized version – unless you guys are sure about “Blk 70” details, why count an XL derivative out?
The whole drama is aptly captured by the plight of the ACM – at one point he sounds desperate to get more numbers and at another he talks about drastically changing tech requirements. :rolleyes: On the one hand, he is all about “we don’t have time for customization and TOT” and OTOH he says, “we follow govt. DPPs all the way” 😉 What an unfortunate place to be stuck in. 😀
Wisepanda, you hit the nail right on the head. In the short term, the IAF would be best suited to buy some 2nd hand M2ks and MiG29s and upgrade them to better standards.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceNo USS the only pie US can hope for from the nuke deal is that american companies would get most contracts from the deal for nuke reactors which is exclusively with russia and france at the moment. If the nuke deal falls then russia would walk away with all of it, maybe france will also get some. IAF might be evaluating F-18 and 16 but will not go for it. Of course if it had been the navy (who have a lot more common sense than IA or IAF) they would have rejected any american offer long ago after the sea king fiasco.
Qantaz, why do you think the weight requirement has been scratched for the RFP? It was this reason that the Su 30 was rejected for the MRCA. Now all of a sudden the weight does not matter??? Of a sudden the govt changes, Americans show interest and tom tom the F18 e/f (which is quite heavy and certainly more than the 20 ton class) and the original RFP specs are changed. Soon the French pull out the M2k-5 and tout the Rafale, thereafter the Euro guys are reconsidered (after being initially negated by the IAF) so that they can’t complain. Another hint, look how the RFP seems to be timed with the Nuke Deal in the Congress and Senate. Now that the Senate is about to vote on it (this month), they say “RFPs are due very shortly” :rolleyes: C’mon read between the lines…the Americans have influenced this deal in a huge way…if the Nuke Deal goes through, so does the Super Hornet. It is quite straightforward that the IAF has only a say on the tech specs in the decision making process and that too only to a limited extent (no wonder the requirements change overnight :rolleyes: ). The IAf it seems is in a tight crack as of now, they need the a/c like fish need water. Numbers kind sir, are down to record levels, where the birds come from (and too a great degree what type of birds) is decided by the govt. in power at the moment. GOd forbid the govt. changes, the RFP specs will change again. 😀 What a fiasco. If this was not the case, and the IAF was in a position to make a decisive call, they would have had M2k-5s production in full swing by now considering they mentioned their preference ages ago.
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceI don’t see IAF going for F-18 or F-16. Heck they won’t accept LCA with american engine, why would they be idiotic enough to ask for 100+ american planes. I am guessing the fight is mainly between Mig-35 russian lobby and Rafale. Eurofighter may or may not have a chance. Gripen ..not in a million years.
USS..I don’t think IAF is gaga over american weapons. Russians, french and israelis seem to offer a lot of choices. Korea did not have a choice because they use american weapons on most of their fighters, while we have no use for american weapons. Personally i agree with harry Rafale or Eurofighter is the way to go. But it all depends on how much TOT and investment they bring to HAL or India. Rafale does have an edge if Snecma joins with GTRE in getting kaveri online soon. Harry there was some news in BR about PV-3 ground trials? Can you enlighten us.
Qantaz,
Don’t be too sure about not getting American a/c. The IAF is sending evaluators/pilots all the time to check out F18s and f16s anymore. If the nuclear deal goes through, I would think the US is definitely going to get a piece of the pie (if not the whole pie). The current indian govt. is determined to court the Americans. This is not just an IAF deal, it has a serious political nature to it. Otherwise what are they waiting for? Anymore they even ask the US for permission to test missiles – remember the Agni III fiasco?
Packard,
Rest assured, they have more than enough $$$ for this deal. Figures from $ 9billion to 15 billion have been thrown around. At $ 9bln, 125 Rafales should surely fit in. The EF2000 seems a bit out of reach, but if it offered some kinda great (strategic type) advantage, they could reach it too.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceWhat’s TSP?
Check my previous post and it should be obvious.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceIm sorry to say this but the MiG-35 is perhaps the worst choice (after the F-16 and Gripen) for the MMRCA. It is too redundant with the Su-30MKI and MiG-29K and brings absolutely nothing new to the table when one wants to upgrade their manufacturing and design capabilties based on producing it in the long term.
If Dassault is so desperate to sell the Rafale abroad and the IAF has $ 9 billion to blow, then the choice is obvious. :rolleyes:
Only if the French block the Marlin sale to Pak. The MiG 35 can be a good interim choice esp. if coupled with the 5th gen fighter. Its cheap, offers excellent performance, the bit about upgrading manufacturing capabilities will automatically get a boost through the 5th gen venture. The Raffles is a an excellent bird, but comes with some major downsides IMHO:
1) Strategically poor choice, esp. if American weapons are available.
2) Strategically poor choice, esp. if Marlin sale is not knocked off.
It all depends on what India is trying to achieve through the MRCA purchase:
1) Maintain squadron strength and technological edge over neighbors
2) Boost indigenous tech base
3) Make a strategic statement as well.
IMHO, the French choice comes up short on point 3 (unless of course the Americans attach strings to their product) and they (French) realize where their bread lies buttered.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceFor the nth time – nobody knows what the Saudi price is except the people concerned. The only public statement made was by a Saudi official, who said that they’re paying the same as the RAF. There haven’t even been any leaks, AFAIK. All the published prices are speculation about what they might cost.
Fine, fine if you don’t want to take mass media’s word, let us look at RAF’s EF2000 cost. Somewhere in the USD 100 million vicinity per bird I believe. WHere does that leave a $ 9bln budget for 125 a/c?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceIndia is also joining up with Israel for a new comprehensive EW fit for the LCA-including passive/ active ECM and electro-optical detection & countermeasures.
And hopefully for an AESA radar to 😛
I thought they recently signed up with EADS for an EW suite?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceWhatever IAF selects is best. :dev2: Splitting orders will be worse for logistics. 😮
Mahathir on F/A18s!
Heh heh Mahathir is funny 🙂 Lots of good jibes there. But then proponents of indo-us “natural” alliance might point out that India is a much bigger player now and offers “strategic” partnership to the U.S. (IOW helps curtail the Dragon) and so their F18s (Super F18s) might actually even be able to bomb Singapore :diablo: We’ll see what happens…I have one overriding desire: it happens fast and I get to see some awesome birds in IAF schemes pronto quick. For now all i have is photochopped images 🙁
Personal preference would be customized MiG 35/M2k-5 combo (225 a/c please 🙂 ), even logistics would be easier.
Regards,
USS
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