uss noviceWell its EF/ Rafale/ US aircraft/ Gripen if we dont buy MiG. Why no MiG, because we 1)_already have too many MiGs 2) Even fifth gen fighter is with MiG. Enough of MiG already!!
At this rate, we might as well have MiG itself shift to India. And call itself MiG-Sharma or MiG-Varma or MiG-Dhillon. 😮 :p
So–Gripen + US aircraft—political issues + sanctions
Rafale—-Marlin to PakSo only EF is left. :rolleyes: 😎
Aah see your logic; yes very much on top of things as usual. So, divide the order into 80 ef2000 and rest Mig 35s eh? Sure as heck can’t be 125 Ef2000s for 9bln, just look at the Saudi deal – 70 birds for 10 bln USD. Frankly, I doubt the EF is a serious contender, it is being considered almost as an afterthought. Methinks the Yanks have this number for keeps. If the Nuke deal goes sour, the Russians and french get to share the pie. If not, russia has the cake and the icing too.
regards,
USS.
uss noviceWe are already overreliant on Russia. And after all the spares thingmajig with MiG do we again have to depend on them?
I hope India buys the EF. 😎
EF eh? The Austin effect has rubbed off at last i see 😀 No doubt India is a tad bit overreliant on Mother Russia, but deep TOT and JV type deals should take care of any negative side effects thereof. Same thing with spares too. In time if India produces every nut-bolt for the Mig, why should spares be a problem? also what can they do if Russia is the only one that treats them somewhat equal-equal? France has played a high hand indeed by offering the Paks Marlins, thats despite a 3 bln $ scorpene and similar airbus deal. They gotta realize where their bread is buttered. JMT.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceYet the ones with lower RCS features incorporated into their design would have an advantage wrt the ones without…something that would be highlighted even further in A2A role.
The Russians seem to have done a helluva job reducing RCS on the Flankers, bringing ’em down considerably, plus what marginal RCS difference the Eurobirds might have left is further countered by superpowerful radars such as IRBIS.
As far as MRCA is concerned, the MiG 35 pretty much sounds like the best deal so far:
Most cost effective
Good deal of commonality with existing IAF birds and already existent infrastructure plus experience
Offers tremendous bang for the buck, comparable to anything the Eurobirds can throw at it @ half the cost!
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceLast I checked upgrade was to be finished by 2009 (will try to dig up some dirt on this). I still wanna see HMS Invincible in IN colors with some nice Harriers, that way Viraat could get bit of a break after around 2010.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceIf the budget is going to be ~ 9billion USD, my choice would be:
125 Mirage 2000-5 customized with Rafale gizmos (RBE2+IRST) and indian input. or 80 Rafales. In either case, production and maintenance line set up in India. Further Marlin Submarine sale to Pakistan should be blocked. $ 5.5 billion.
100+ MiG 35mki again customized similar to the Indian Flankers or IN MiG 29ks. $ 4 billion.
225 4++ gen a/c @ the same cost + the added benefit of providing convenience in terms of logistics. Overall more than enough to counter and dominate anything in the region.
OR (if the French play hardball)
125 MiG 35 mki ($ 4.5 billion)
80-100 Super Hornet or F16 blk 70 (with tvc as well) ($ 4.5 billion)
OR (if Americans too play hardball via strings/sanctions)
125 MiG 35 mki and Joint Venture with MiG for I2000 (5th gen fighter)
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceOne question remains: since we are all (except barbarian perhaps) agreed upon the bird not flying on RD 33s, what is it powered by? Some kind of local, reverse engineered engine based on the originals?
Could make a pretty decent Light A2A bird if fitted with a Kopyo type.
By the way, the nose indeed seems larger (esp. in height) as compared to a side profiled F5.
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceCitezenship might be an issue , and i dont know the language , other then that I intend on rulling with an iron fist 🙂
thats the problem in today’s world, everyone wants to be a dictator… 🙂
Is the 1-2000 another name for 5th gen. fighter ??
Based on the model a/c at the singapore airshow as posted in one of the threads here.
Class as in what ??
That you would have to ask qantaz as I was referring to his post in which he alluded that while the MiG 35 and Rafale are in a similar “class”, the others are not:
F-18 E/F is the same class as MKI, currently only rafale or Mig-35 looks to fit the IAF MRCA requirements
i’m assuming he meant weight/size class (as in heavy, medium and light combat a/c). Frankly, I think the ef2000, hornet and rafale are more in the heavy class similar to the flanker, while the MiG 35 falls in the “medium” category.
As regards the ability of the hornet or even the falcon to carry a stupendous variety of weapons, there is no doubt there. The only danger with buying American is that they may pull the rug anytime and you’ll be left with white elephants. If the threat of sanctions and the need for deep TOT can be clearly addressed, their proposals would definitely bring in some unique advantages (AESA, excellent sensors, broad range of munitions) – also the F414 might fit in easily on the LCA or vice versa the Kaveri might substitute for the F414 at a later date (this is one distinct advantage of the hornet – it has the same engines as the lca).
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceAccord to a Russian article I have, the MiG-29K could hang up a single 3M14E LACM in the centerline. I don’t know thorugh if the Club family is actively being pursued for airborne launch, but being based on 3M51 Al’fa concept…I think it’s pretty possible.
A LACM in the class of 3m14E could be an awesome adition to MiG-29K/Su-30MKI series. Cheaper than big BrahMos-A and Fulcrum-capable…
No info about KS-172S-1, no way it have sense, Zhuk-ME didn’t have enough range for support it.
Myself am still thinking what kind of datalink…MPDS or Aist?
Thanks Pit, that is a useful bit of info. Yup KS 172 would not be possible on the K but may be with a MiG 35 with the Zhuk A or something. But a Club airborne on a MiG 29 or 3 clubs on a Su 30mki would be totally awesome. Wonder why they are not pursuing it?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceF-18 E/F is the same class as MKI, currently only rafale or Mig-35 looks to fit the IAF MRCA requirements. Heck if IN can operate Mig29K whats wrong with Mig-35? Save the money and focus on 5th gen with mig.
How is the Rafale in a different class than the F18 E/F? If you can have Raffles for MRCA, surely F18 e/f can also contend. If they want to stay lighter, MiG 35 and Gripen are the only options and for obvious reasons, the MiG 35 is the best bet.
Only problem with 250 MKI is that it is 2 seater a/c. Translates into problems in terms of pilots available ( i believe they have 2 sets per a/c, Harry or George or Nick could confirm this). A Single seat version (similar to Su 35BM) ought to make this more practical.
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceI seriously doubt 30 million per plane. That must be without any support or weapons. IN paid 750 mil for 16, which works out to 46 mil per pop.
Yes, I was referring to flyaway UNIT cost only, I believe that is the price quoted for most a/c as for eg. when they say M2k-5 cost ~ 50 million, it does not include setup, training etc. The cost of $ 46 million including training, setup, weapons etc is fantastic. Compare this to the late 90s Qatari M2k-5 deal (12 a/c for over 1.2 billion $s rings up the tab @ around $ 100 mill per a/c), again look @ what S. Arabia pays for the EF2000 ($ 10bln for 70 odd a/c)! For a modern 4+ gen machine, this price is something to boast about!
Vice Admiral Madanjit Singh, FOC-in-C Western Naval Command, stated at a press conference on 13 April 2005 that the MiG-29K will be based at INS Hansa in Goa, when they arrive in 2007. He also stated that the Indian Navy plans to eventually acquire up to 40 MiG-29K aircraft. The Vice Admiral also pegged the price at $32 million per aircraft. Based on this calculation, the $740 million contract signed on 20 January 2004 works out to $46.25 million per aircraft. The additional $14.25 million per aircraft (or $228 million in total) includes the cost of the full hardware for training personnel, simulators and interactive ground & sea based training systems.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/MiG-29K.html
http://www.caat.org.uk/publications/countries/qatar-1002.php :
In 1994 they completed deals, signed by the then French Defence Minister, Francois Leotard, for twelve Dassault Mirage 2000-5 fighters (worth around $1.3 billion)
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceUSS this is a partly good move , getting MKI’s straight from russia would mean close to 2 squadrons per year or nearabouts however what is to stop them from getting another licence production agrement and still continueing the home production to further get the no.s desired even a 10 aircraft per year production post 2012 would mean a 50 MKI extra order which is very good given the awsome capability of this aircraft , infact i would rather bump up the rusky buy by 2 years and 50 extra units plus produce the 50 more units myself and end up with close to 300 MKI’s ( or su-30’s in total) , this would allow me to go and buy just one MRCA rather then the 2 aircraft 200 units order that is flying around the rumour mill , then i can go in for either the Mig-35 or the F-18E/F ( with time the Mig-29’s would be retired ) . Another option that they can seriously consider is go in for the 100 or so extra Su-30’s , bump up the production run for the LCA ( with Snecma , Lockheed help etc) , increase the size of that line at HAL and wait a few years for the Mig 5th gen. JSF type aircraft and skip an entire generation of the MRCA which falls between 2 technology generations.
BIO,
They need to get you to be PM or at least defmin for India. 😀 Can’t agree more about getting more MKI’s in the inventory. They can especially be used in a big way to cover the large EEZ that IN tries to protect in the IOR. superb a2g ability with brahmos and what not! i’m all for this – VOTE BIO as next PM :diablo:
Recently there were talks about the MRCA budget being close to $ 15 billion! I say 125 hornet or Rafale with the rest for 75-80 MiG I2000 a/c as per a JV setup with MiG!
But what to do nobody listens to us 🙁
uss noviceNope, I think they made the right move. the improvements will continue on the a/c, no compromise on that. But they need to get some #s in…forces are depleting in a hurry. With LCA still not ready, MRCA stuck in the muck, short resources + crazy bureaucracy requirements for intermediate purchases, IAF did the best thing.
In case there is a war in the short term (3-5) years, this move will pay HUGE dividends. IAF has to be prepared for such an possibility – remote as it may sound considering the drama of freindship that the leadership would like the world to believe. At least this possibility is somewhat countered with quick induction of the MKIs, it would not be so if MKIs came in at 7-8 a/c per year.
Also, this would free HAL to make a concerted effort at producing other a/c in numbers (MRCA and LCA).
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceLots of good info there, so briefly we have a MiG 29 that has:
1) Range of 2100km+ (16% more than original K as per above)
2) Higher thrust smoke free engines
3) Zhuk M based avionics with Topsight HMS for r77/r73 combo
4) IRST
5) Roshini/Tarang rwr+el8222 pod?
6) 9 hardpoints with payload of ~ 5500kg
7) Lowered RCS of ~ 1msq
8) Regular line of Russian AGMs like kh31/kh35+laser guided bombs
9) Excellent service life, all support based in India
10) Buddy-buddy and conventional IFR
All in all one helluva packet for $ 30million, wish they could hook up a couple of klubs (alfas?) to this beast or a KS 172?
How would this compare with the IAF mig 29 “baaz” upgrade? i’m guessing the range and payload for the baaz would be lower (SMT Class – 2000km/4500kg?).
should be more than a match for any f16 blk 52s in the IOR.
REgards,
USS.
uss noviceOriginally posted by Coldfire as a new topic:
India Won’t Finally Assemble Su-30MKI Fighters
http://www.idrw.org/index.php?categoryid=1&p2_articleid=349last sukhoi will roll out in 2012 instead of 2017,thank god goverment hs finally woken up
Does this mean that they will now induct as many as 25-30 MKIs per year for the next 5-6 years? Currently they have 2 sqds flying MKIs (lightnings and rhinos both at lohegaon right?). So they still need about 190-32 = 158 a/c by 2012 = about 25+ a/c per year? That would be good, they need ’em and pronto quick.
How many MiG 21 bisons do they have currently operational? Wasn’t the original production run for 126 a/c completed last year? Weren’t they supposed to get another squad or more? Any body any answers?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceman, isn’t there an IAF thread on the forum? This is problly not the first time you have put up some IAF news bit as a sensationaly new thread topic. i’m taking this up on the IAF thread.
Regards,
USS.
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