uss noviceWell, I understand it might not be the brightest idea around, but can someone comment on the Su 33kub being used with a kamov radar as an AEW platform for the IN carriers?
Is this feasible or is it impossible to have the flat panel radar on the centerline of the massive Su?
regards,
uss.
uss noviceWhat AEW assets do IN carriers have apart from the Ka 31 (is this the right designation?)? I have always wanted to see a more powerful, longer ranged and better stamina a/c than just the kamov for this role.
1) Is it possible for the IN carrier to use a couple of Su 33MKI (bars, extra pods etc) types as AEW assets only instead of the Ka 31?
2) Perhaps a modified Su 33KUB could carry an external radar E-801M Oko (Eye) like the kamov??? 😮
Considering a flanker’s endurance and range combined with some UAVs might give the carrier a more comprehensive AEW cover. I suppose this would be a maintenance headache, but then again, it might even out if the Kamov was dropped. I sure wish the IN had a more robust AEW platform on its carriers.
Just some speculation. what do the smart people on the forum think?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceThis movie was crappy all the way. Yup, the hero uses missiles to blow away individual bad guys and decides to go guns on SU 37s! And then has only 1 missile left to rescue his sweetheart! What the hell was Jamie foxx doing in a movie like this after getting awards for Ray?
totally cheeap and unrealistic C grade movie. Horrible for even a tech novice like myself. Watch it at your own peril.
USS.
uss noviceIf the IAF goes for the -29MKI then the older -29S are pretty much gonna stay the same…
Aren’t they about to get an upgrade. Man, I hope they at least change the radars (even Zhuk Ms like the Ks will do if Bars needs totally new airframe etc). what about a different avionics package? Any guesses at what this upgrade might include?
Regards,
USS.
uss noviceShould not even be talking about the F/A-18 or F/A-16 look at all the local aircraft in development and how they have stoped as soon as America has gotten a foot hold.. and we do not need to have aircraft that our lovely neighbour in the west is soo familiar with!
Go with Russia or France get the Mig-29M2 with the navy mods TV, radar Sagem + other avionics !
Absolutely! MiG 29M2 (esp. if MKIzed) is the best deal around. Get the scorpene and make the french happy. For the U.S. make a small, initial deal with PAC 3 or some kind of BMD and keep them happy, if this works out well offer them carrot of JSF purchase in the future. This way IAF gets what it needs (reduced inventory levels etc), French are happy, Russians are real happy, US is pleased and GOI is the happiest. But then again, I don’t make these decisions! 😀
USS.
uss noviceF/A-18 is a bad bad bad idea of for india when it will be facing soo many Su27’s and Su-30’s India needs a fighter that can fight for itself to get some where unsupported by the large masses of F/16’s AWACS E-2000’s etc etc etc etc etc
India does not that kind of back bone to support a BOMB TRUCK!
One would tend to agree with above view. there are some major and expensive drawbacks to the f18:
1) Too Big, almost in the class of MKI
2) No support structure, no previous experience = huge startup costs
3) No inventory of weapons to use with f18
4) Addition of another type of a/c to inventory
5) Expensive ~ $ 60million.
Logistically this would be a mess.
Advantages:
1) If modified to Indian standards, they could have an original F18C (smaller, more manouverable) fit with F414s, AESA, ATFLIR, reduced RCS (I’ve heard the super hornet’s rcs ~ 0.1m^2!, can anyone confirm?)etc. keep it the way it was, but with new gizmos.
2) Great boost to Indian tech and production abilities what with AESA type technology.
3) Great boost to LCA programme, despite delay in Kaveri. Can the F 414s be used instead of the GE 404s in the LCA?
4) Basically stick to the F18C but add to it everything apart from size of the Super Hornet.
Overall, I would think this is a bum deal! IAF will sooner or later get AESA (there is no great hurry anyway – what immediate threat offers tech to match the IAF?). Once Pakfa comes, this AESA thing will not be such a big deal. As regards the kaveri issue, GTRE is seeking JVs with a foreign company which should take care of that problem. if the goal is to keep US happy in return for nuclear tech, just buy BMD stuff from them!
What does the f18 offer other than extra cost and logistical headaches? Not much IMVHO. This is an interim requirement, so go with relatively cheap and reliable fighter and invest funds in 5th gen a/c like Pakfa or JSF (if offered). heavily modified MiG29 MKI is my favourite for this purpose.
peace,
US.
uss noviceHmmm, lemme tackle this; the IAF wants MRCA to have …. erm … “MR”? i.e. multi-role?
In that sense the Mig-29M2 is preferable, since the Mirage cannot beat it in A2A and the -29M2 equipped with Litening+IRST+(Zhuk or Bars-29) is surely as capable (if not more) than a Mirage 200*.
What works against the -29M2 is that it is almost as good as a flying junkyard and a hangar queen; requiring much more maintainence, having much more parts than a Mirage. And add to that the fact that the -29 hasn’t been designed from the maintainence standpoint, so the possibility of LRUs and modules is almost non-existent, if we go by the report of the Luftwaffe evaluation of it’s -29.
Rockgordon, good analysis indeed, just one little problem – “why do we go by report of Luftwaffe evaluation of it’s -29”? Why not go with IAF’s? they haven’t complained about it in a long, long time. happy – they are, as yoda would say.
The Mirage has more range than the LCA and carries a slightly higher oayload.
sameer, isn’t this range thing a debatable point? I have read on this forum some convincing arguments for the LCA. And if the IAF had some bad memories about the Mig 29A, i’m sure they got over them mighty fast when Mr. Chibber had locked on to two PAF f16s, heh heh. 😀
Kind Regards,
USS.
uss noviceWhat does India Want in a MRCA? is it attack or is it Air defence?
If it is Attack then the M2k-5 would be nice, it was based as a low level bomber and only later turned into a multi-role craft so its fine for that.
IF you want Air defence go with the Mig-29M2 or what ever the newest varient that is being offered to India it is a fighter and designed for it that is its pedigree!
Maybe they should split the contract 50-50?
I think IAF wants both premier A2A and premier A2G. Ze wants ze cake, ze icing and ze cherry (may be ze cherie also, no?) 🙂
The mig 29 sounds better and it is quite a match up A2G esp. if it is offered with Brahmos or Klub (egad what a monster that would be!). And it has a huge variety in AShm.
Peace,
USS.
uss noviceWe need 126!!!! why not go for 63-63 of both 🙂 that will close all debates. :):) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: 😀 😀 :dev2: :dev2:
Tsk Tsk, what a waste of cash! if IAF does not buy dem exhorbitant M2000s at all, they could probly get close to 160 Mig 29 (MKI) for the same $. 🙂
USS.
uss noviceGood lord, based on georgej’s post, the Mig29k costs only $ 45m incldng all armament, training and tech support.! And this is a carrier based version which would probly be more costly than a land based version. How in the big blue world do you guys assume the MiG 29M2/MKI to be more expensive than the Mirage 2000-5?
And A2A performance wise, the Mig 29 M (or MKI for the Indians) surely seems to have the edge, esp. in context of the IAF!
Peace,
USS.
uss noviceI have to agree with star on this, The Mig 29M with Bars 29 and TVC (which looks unlikely at the moment) is not going to be a cheap exercise by any length, especially if india starts putting foreign avionics in it.
and just how cheap is the Mirage 2000-mk5/9? The su 30mki with all the foreign stuff costs around $ 45m. I don’t see the Mig29 being any costlier. the cost of the carrier based MiG 29k is bound to be higher than a land based counterpart. Please consider the cost of the IAF Mirage 2000h that was recently acquired before even thinking about the 2000-5. even qatar which is about to sell 2nd hand a/c asks a whopping $ 700 million for 12 M2000-5s, which is around $ 60m per plane. And i believe these are ones with the original RDy-1 whichi is only geared up for A2A missions (could be wrong here). In either case, M2000 is by far more expensive.
And star49, care to explain how no other russian radar other than bars 29 matches up to rdy 2 (esp. in performance). I assume you don’t want to involve the NO11M, but I would like to know how the RDy2 bests the ZhukM.
Regards
USS.
uss noviceOf course a MiG-29A will loose out vs a Mirage-2000-5 but I have my doubts about the 29M2 vs Mirage2k5. Certainly as I mentioned before in a dogfight the MiG-29A beats the Mirage 2000H hands down in IAF training exercises.
What ever happened to the longer range version of the r-77 anyway? that will be the big difference btw the two mrca planes.
I too really doubt that the M2K-5 can take on the Mig29m2 etc a2a, it just does not have the radar range, missile range, nor the IRST nor the aerodynamics nor the TWR. All critical elements I believe in a a2a matchup. May become a more challenging if used with AMraam C and Meteor.
I thought the IAF R77-RVEE was already rated for around 100 km +. Are you referring to the R77M or is R77PD (the one with the seeker head)? Most confusing to the foreigner, this Russian naming system. Perhaps they should have another system that is specifically for non-russian speaking people 😉
Peace,
USS.
uss noviceThe AdA website quote the max range as “>80km”.
Happy ? 😉
this i want to see, could you please post the link? Even the manufacturer website gives it as 60km+ and calls it a medium range bvr –
http://www.mbda.net/site/FO/scripts/siteFO_contenu.php?lang=EN&noeu_id=124
In either case, the m2k-5 is one dangerous beast, probly too much for the IAF MiG29 1vs1. situation may change after the upgrades though.
Peace,
USS.
uss noviceThose IAF bast$$ds, cheap shot on the IN< they have been waiting for this for a decade now/ 🙂
How true 🙂 It will be real interesting to see what the upgrade turns up like. My fantasy:
Bars29, TVC, Tarang, new avionics + display, CAC, more range and hardpoints, uprated engines, RAM coatings – RCS reduction measures, and of course, Brahmos!! Shoot, while I’m at it, want later additions to include KS 172 as well. Hows about dem apples? :diablo:
Peace,
USS.
uss noviceI would take 1 Mirage 2000 vs 3 Indian Mig-29 anyday of the week 🙂
Dude, are you trying to be funny? What long range AAMs can the IAF use with the Mirage? Indian MiG 29s can use R77s, a single INDIAN Mirage 2000-5 even with Mica (which has range of around 50km for radar guided version), will not find it easy. Even if the M2k-5 detects the mig earlier (debatable since the N019M in IAF has been tweaked:)), it doesn’t currently have a missile that can match that range, on the other hand the IAF MiG 29 does. the use of Mirage 2000-5 in IAF seems a little limited without a good long range ARH missile.
Of course, the AMRAAM would change the picture considerably, but I am not including the use of AMRAAMs simply because the IAF, which would procure these a/c do not have that option.
Regards,
USS.
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