BobKatMany thanks, Peter. I wish they were all that simple!!
I attach a diagram. The front spar fittings (on the left) look larger than those for the rear spar (on the right), but the two diagrams may not be to precisely the same scale. Would they have been of different shapes and sizes? If so, the diagrams would suggest that we may have a fitting from the rear spar, with the joint pin found at location 49 being the other one of the pair from either the top or bottom shackle?
BobKatNew finds
Laurent has at last been able to have a closer look at the areas of the forest affected by the tree-felling work. In some parts, the branches remain uncollected or have been crushed into the ground by the equipment. In other areas, some pieces of the wreckage have been brought to the surface. I attach pictures of items found on the eastern edge of the forest where the port wing came to earth. Laurent is still searching the area he has designated ‘103’ and will send pictures later.
At location 102 there are what seem to be some engine pieces. One (102B) appears identical to a piece found at location 49 which is immediately adjacent to 102. So, we have two similar items. Does anyone recognise any of the pieces shown in greater detail in pictures 102A, B, C and D? Laurent’s descriptions are shown on the pictures.
At location 104 the circular piece is numbered 30SS 3221. This is a type of inspection panel found on the underside of the wing and on the tail plane. Given where it was found (next to locations 57 and 79), presumably this piece is from the wing.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=BCF75E8AD40ADF0D!164&authkey=!AJrxfdmdr6MXSdw&ithint=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=bcf75e8ad40adf0d!1426&authkey=!AAJOZyTYrN-x0CQ&ithint=folder%2cjpg
BobKatA short update from France. Laurent tells me that there are currently workers in the forest collecting the cut timber and branches following the tree-felling. When he has some time available, he will have a look to see what progress is being made. Let us hope that he will be able to resume his search for more wreckage soon, but it is likely that we will have to wait for a while before we hear more!
BobKatHave you tried the London Gazette?
There are entries for Frederick Edward Thayer (151187) and Donald Arthur Pizzey (2601258). The former may be the person you are looking for, but the latter appears to be post war and not the right identification. Can you give a little more detail about what information are you seeking?
BobKatlanc35, I agree that the London Gazette suggests retraining after the war. Moggy, I agree that if he was involved in dropping supplies, rather than personnel, in occupied France, then he would most probably have still been a Flight Engineer at the end of the war. It would be interesting to confirm why he was mentioned in despatches – I wonder whether it might have been when he flew his bomber home after the pilot was incapacitated? No doubt Mr Merry can confirm how the family want to carry this forward.
BobKatA bit more research: Lysanders were two-seater aircraft, but for SOE operations it seems that the rear cockpit could be adapted in an emergency for two passengers in some discomfort.
If Sgt Gallear was involved in Lysander SOE operations as suggested, then he would almost certainly have had to have been the pilot. There would be no reason to have a Flight Engineer on board. If so, he must have qualified to fly in wartime. Unless, of course, he was the agent!
BobKatA more detailed look at the London Gazette shows:
1 January 1946: mentioned in despatches (Sergeant)
11 January 1952: appointed to Commission as Pilot Officer (previously Cadet Pilot)
29 November 1952: promoted to Flying Officer (21 Nov 1952)
2 May 1955: transferred to Reserve (22 Apr 1955)
1 April 1958: promoted to Flight Lieutenant (5 Dec 1957) [RAF Reserve – General Duties]
22 September 1959: Commission relinquished, retaining rank of Flight Lieutenant (22 Apr 1959)
It is not clear (to me) from this when he undertook his pilot’s training. It might have been towards the end of the war, but it could also have been in peace-time, perhaps in the late forties or early fifties? He could have finished his wartime service as a either a Sergeant Flight Engineer or a Sergeant Pilot. Maybe paulmcmillan could help on this? Do you have a date on the photograph? He has his ‘wings’ at that date.
This could all be established by reference to his Service Record if you could get hold of this from RAF Cranwell as mentioned in my earlier post.
BobKatFor clarification, I was referring to a number of entries in the London Gazette in post #5, but specifically the one which paulmcmillan quotes in post #11. His medals, if I have identified them correctly, would not be Gazetted, as they are are those issued widely to all qualifying RAF combatants serving in Europe.
BobKatMr Merry, now that you have his service number, his next-of-kin (or someone else at a cost of £30) could apply to RAF Cranwell and ask for a copy of his service record:
https://www.raf.mod.uk/community/family/request-for-information-from-service-records/
If this is available it will show the squadron(s) with which he flew during wartime and subsequently. He seems to have continued service in the RAF until the 1950s. Having established his wartime squadron(s), it will then be possible to search the Squadron Operations Record Book at the National Archives and look for details of his sorties. This is best done in person at Kew, rather than online, otherwise there is a cost for each monthly record downloaded.
This is the route I followed to find out about my wife’s uncle.
I understand Lysanders were sometimes used to fly in secret agents (SOE missions). Sounds intriguing – I hope you find out more.
Good luck!
BobKatHis name appears in the London Gazette as being mentioned in despatches. His service number was 1868185. If you google “1868185 Gallear” you will find the references.
The medals appear to be the 1939/45 Star, the France/Germany medal, and the War Medal on which there is an oak leaf showing that he was mentioned in depatches.
BobKatFor readers of this thread who are interested in the forensic aspects of the crash site, the attached panoramic view of the Forêt du Croc shows where identified pieces of wreckage of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) were found along the northern perimeter. Aerial reconnaissance photographs at the time showed the forest to be densely wooded. Some seventy years later, new trees will have grown and others will have disappeared, but it can reasonably be assumed that the falling aircraft would have ploughed from left to right through similar forestation before coming to rest. The distance between locations 50, on the left, and 15, on the right, is approximately 200 yards, with the mid-point close to location 60. It is around here that the first impact with the ground seems to have occurred – near point ‘B’ on the wreckage location plan.
Pieces of the undercarriage (50, 53, 54, 51, 41 and 5) are on the left; then an interior fitting from the rear fuselage (26) is next to parts of the tail plane (4 and 3) and engine parts (60, 90 and M2), followed by pieces from the central fuselage (2 and 25). Another engine part (M3) is close to the forward fuselage (1), beyond which are pieces from the bomb bay (15). To the right, a little distance from the forest edge, were pieces from the rear fuselage and bomb bay (20 and 36). Still further away, by the side of the road into the forest, were pieces from another engine (M1). The positions of the pieces on the aircraft are shown on the attached illustration by Pete West (who sadly died at this time last year) which is reproduced with the consent of the editor of Memorial Flight. The discovery of two portable oxygen cylinders some distance apart in the field next to the forest (89 on the left, and 42 on the right) provide additional evidence that the fuselage broke up as it came to earth, either as it hit the ground or as a result of a second explosion as it fell. The detached port wing and at least one engine came to rest separately along the eastern slopes behind the trees on the left.
The only item which has been identified as coming from the outer (starboard) wing is the access plate for the formation light terminal on the underside of the wing tip found near location 1. This is curious. Given the locations of the pieces of the undercarriage and engines found, it seems unlikely that the outer wing would have come to rest at this point – it would probably have sheared off and disintegrated as the wing hit the ground or the trees. On the other hand, the wing could have fragmented in an explosion, with pieces being hurled some distance. It is also possible that salvageable pieces of the wing could have been placed at or near location 1, and for the access plate then to have become detached from the wing tip, as the wreckage was being cleared from the site after the war. This location would have been a convenient collection point next to the road into the forest. Nearly everything else found at location 1 can be identified as having originally been situated in the crew area of the fuselage forward of the wing spar.
It is also interesting to note the quantity of serial number plates found (as seen in the photo-gallery) – all detached from the pieces of equipment to which they originally belonged. The larger pieces of surviving wreckage would have been removed for scrap metal, and it seems likely that by that time the attachments for the serial number plates could have rusted away after lengthy exposure to the atmosphere, helpfully leaving behind evidence of some of the equipment on board the aircraft.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=BCF75E8AD40ADF0D!164&authkey=!AJrxfdmdr6MXSdw&ithint=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=bcf75e8ad40adf0d!1426&authkey=!AAJOZyTYrN-x0CQ&ithint=folder%2cjpg
BobKatDave,
I have just been looking at some of the research I did before visiting the site in 2014. The site plan on the left can be compared with a wartime aerial view where the water storage pond is clearly visible. I also have an extract from a more recent plan, the source of which I cannot now recollect, where the site of the pond is clearly marked with a blue square. However a GoogleEarth aerial view of 2002 suggests that it must have been filled in as there is no sign of it in the picture. The surviving buildings are clearly seen along with a large number of storage containers which were no longer there when I visited the site!
BobKatDave,
Yes, the picture of 240-239-234 was taken from about the spot. Picture 239-240-236 is taken from the other side of the buildings and looks towards where the pond would have been – somewhere near the trees in the background. From what you say, your wife’s grandfather was with 582 Sqn. My wife’s uncle, Jim Foulsham, was a Mosquito pilot with 109 Sqn, but was flying a 582 Sqn Lancaster when he was shot down on 20 July 1944. If you are interested you can have a look at the thread “Wreckage of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z)” – pieces of the wreckage are still being found 70+ years later. What was the period of your wife’s grandfather’s service – perhaps their time overlapped?
I hope you enjoy your trip – keep in touch via this thread.
Bob
BobKatSite No.2
dhayes,
I assume you have a site plan as you know the building numbers? I attach an extract showing Site No.2 with the surviving buildings shown in red. Buildings 243 and part of 231 have since been destroyed by fire. The pictures attached are from a visit in 2014. Vehicular access to the site known as the Little America Industrial Estate was via a security gate with a code for entry. Pedestrian access was available with a short walk to the site, so you will need to leave your car in the road near the entrance gate. The occupants were happy for me to take photos. If you don’t have a plan and would like to know what the buildings were, please let me know – the numbers are shown on the pictures.
BobKatdhayes,
I don’t have any pictures of the pond – I don’t remember seeing it on my visit, so I imagine that it may well be lost amongst the undergrowth. I do have a picture of the Sergeant’s Mess on Site 2 (building 232) if this is of any interest.
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