BobKatMany thanks WV-903. More food for thought! You mention a rotating plate – could this include a rotating scanner for radar equipment, or are you thinking of something smaller and quite different?
Peter, does this help your deliberations?
I have just heard from Laurent. It appears that a friend of his who helped him with the finds at location 1 has many of these pieces in his possession, and so he cannot answer any detailed questions about the pieces in my recent posts.
He has also provided me with some new photos of the pieces at location 91 and one new find. I will post these shortly. In the meantime, another picture is attached – I found the diagram in the Parts List. This shows what I think must be the clamps you are describing, Peter. Is this right?
BobKatGus_635,
Yes, I found a partial list – try this link:
http://gmic.co.uk/topic/4794-v1-v2-v3-sites-questions/
As far I can tell, Volckerinckhove was also known as Middel Straete by the Allies, and according to the list on the link it was known as Feuerstellung 45 by the Germans.
BobKatPeter, many thanks for all the time you are taking on this.
To sum up:
Item A, the flanged wing-shaped pieces remain a mystery. Perhaps they are the internal workings of some radio or radar equipment? Unless anyone can come up with some ideas, these will remain unidentified.
Item B seems to be a cable guide for the propeller feathering system. If anyone has a picture of it in situ, or a diagram, they would be happy to share, this would be very much appreciated, please.
We seem to have had most success with item C, the control pulleys. As far as I can see from pictures inside the bomb bay, the cables run down the length of the aircraft in the lower space in the formers, but I cannot find any pictures of any pulleys. I have now found another illustration in the Parts List (Fig.76 on page 287) showing the trimmer controls in the front centre section, underneath the pilot’s seat. There are three pulleys (9/R2288 and 2SP/27023) which are not individually illustrated. Could these be our three, I wonder?
I attach below a picture of a similar item described as a relic from a Seafire Mk.III, but with no further details. for comparison with our items. The pieces look similar and the frame of the ‘relic’ is of laminated material – perhaps Tufnol? The internal part seems to have expanded as the piece has deteriorated. All other pictures I can find of aircraft pulleys show them either as individual items or with a metal supporting frame. Does this new picture strike any chords with anyone?
I have not been able to find anything which illustrates the clamp pictured as item D.
Still no news from Laurent. He appears to be very busy on other matters.
BobKatThanks Peter. I’ll look forward to any pictures or diagrams you can find of B and D.
In post #984 you kindly attached an excellent picture to show the prop feathering cable. I have attached a reduced size copy of this below – you marked piece 90A in red. I have marked our magneto link rod (part of item 100) in a red rectangle. Is the prop feathering cable guide where I have shown the circle? This would presumably be held in position by a clamp around the strut?
Did you manage to find out anything more about the pulleys (item C) which you thought might be from the wing? My diagrams from the Parts List show many sprockets and chain-link controls, but there are a few cables and pulleys for the aileron trimmer, including one with four cables (Fig.182 on page 690 of the Parts List), but the illustration shows a configuration which does not match our pieces. As we have what seem to be three identical pulleys in frames, this may be a likely candidate from an earlier configuration. Any thoughts on this?
BobKatPeter, I e-mailed Laurent yesterday morning to ask him whether the connector was numbered, but I have not yet had a response. The last time we were in touch was in September when he sent the photograph of item 100 after fitting the two pieces together. At that time he said he was very busy, and it may be that he is away from home. I will let you know as soon as I hear anything further.
I assume you haven’t had any luck with trying to identify any of the items lettered A, B, C and D in my post #1062?
BobKatElectrical connector
Peter, sorry about yesterday’s confusion over page numbering – I edited my last post to explain. It seems that the captions I added for each picture in the photo-gallery do not now appear at the bottom of the screen when viewing the photos in slideshow mode. Maybe a system change by Onedrive? However, they can be viewed when looking at images individually by clicking on the “i” button on the toolbar when a separate window opens showing the information. It is still possible to scroll through the pages in this mode.
I have added a new page (now numbered 34) to the photo-gallery showing better pictures of the electrical items found at location 1, as displayed in July 2014. This means all subsequent pages, including the ones you referred to, are moved up one!
While doing this, I realised that another item seems to have missed the camera previously, and I show details below. This is an electrical connector and appears to be one of those used for the R1124/R1125 Beam Approach system. I cannot find a similar looking piece amongst the radio and Gee installations. There is no record of ED908 carrying the Eureka or Rebecca systems, so my assumption is that it was still equipped with the old standard beam approach system, and this connector could be from the control unit or one of the receivers which all seem to have similar fittings as pictured below (with acknowledgements to http://www.qsl.net). If anyone can add anything further, please let me know.
I’ll look forward to hearing anything further you can find out about the items in my post #1062. Many thanks again for the time you are spending on this.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=BCF75E8AD40ADF0D!164&authkey=!AJrxfdmdr6MXSdw&ithint=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=bcf75e8ad40adf0d!1426&authkey=!AAJOZyTYrN-x0CQ&ithint=folder%2cjpg
BobKatExcellent!!
………………
Edit: Peter, I have now, somewhat belatedly, realised that if you play the slideshow on the photo-gallery, the page numbers you mention come up! Sorry for the confusion, but we have identified the right pages – I was counting the frames from the ’tiles’ listing without running the slideshow – I wasn’t on the right wavelength!!
Onedrive has changed a little since I first put the photos onto it, but you can always get more information by clicking on the ‘i’ button at the top right of each page when information about the individual items will be displayed. At one time the captions appeared on the bottom of the screen, but this doesn’t now seem to be happening.
BobKatThat seems to be the two pictures after location number 70 – have I counted right? If so, the answer is yes – these are two photos of the rudder trimming tab from a different angle. My images aren’t numbered – I have to count from the start!!
BobKatPeter, I am obviously missing something somewhere!! You asked about pages 194 and 195, but I am not sure where I am meant to be looking!
BobKatAh, OK, thanks for clarifying. But I’m not sure which ones you mean as there are no images numbered 194 and 195. Can you identify these by a number of the location as appearing on the picture, please?
BobKatPeter, I am confused by the reference to pages 194 and 195. In my copy this was the Merlin engine valve split cotter. Am I looking at the right thing?
………………
It’s now after midnight UK time, so I will follow up in the morning.
BobKatPeter, many thanks for your offer which is very much appreciated. Yes, the book will help, but the starting point is post #35 near the beginning of the thread. There are larger scale pictures of the discoveries at location 1 found in May 2012 as displayed on the table near the beginning of the photo-gallery. Although many of these are small pieces, they all form part of what is now approaching a 200-piece jigsaw of identified parts.
At the end of the photo-gallery are pictures taken of the table display in July 2014. These may also be worth a look.
Below is a photograph of one end of the table display in July 2014 taken from a different angle. The pieces at the top of the picture are all identified and appear in the photo-gallery as separate items. I have marked four items on the picture with red letters, as listed below. These are pieces which may be capable of identification. There are a few other distinctively shaped pieces which I have not marked. The items which have been identified are marked with numbers in blue. Some shown with question marks in the list below are tentative, and any help with these or any other unmarked pieces in the photograph would be much appreciated.
Items for identification (A to D)
A is a collection of three items, all with flanged edges, and pictured from two angles. One (at the top left) is clearly seen as a separate item, the second (in the centre) is attached to some metalwork and has been distorted, but is otherwise similarly shaped to the first. The third has an asymmetric arrangement of its parts. These items seem to have missed the camera previously, and so are new. The question is why do they have flanged ends? Are they clamps of some sort?
B is cube-shaped and a piece of rusted metal rod or cable is attached to it by what appears to be a fragmented piece. Could it be a supporting block of some sort, or maybe a fairlead for a cable? Perhaps this was a repair using a non-standard piece? I can’t see anything looking like it in the Parts List illustrations.
C is a group of three pulleys which appear to have become a little distorted. The only thing I can think of is that these might be pulleys for the aileron control cables, or something similar amongst the flying controls. Presumably they were positioned close together when found. A number of pulleys are illustrated in the Mk.X Parts List, but all are differently configured.
D shows a pin with a wing-nut on the left, and a bar with a similar looking wing-nut attached on the right. I had wondered whether the first item might be part of the flying controls locking mechanism.
If anybody recognises any of these items, or can offer any suggestions as to what they might be, I should be very pleased to hear.
Other items illustrated (1 to 15)
1. Engine mounting block
2. Serial number plate for motor generator type 31 [10K/24]
3. 5-amp glass fuse
4. Two “Sutton” harness buckles
5. Flying control rod with clevis
6. Unidentified instrument gauge?
7. Connector for R1124 Beam Approach Receiver?
8. Supporting strut for crew station table?
9. Base of T1154 radio transmitter valve
10. Navigator panel twin locking switch
11. Beehive insulator
12. Bomb release connector flap
13. Miscellaneous radio valves
14. Aerial plug board fittings
15. Flare strap buckle
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=BCF75E8AD40ADF0D!164&authkey=!AJrxfdmdr6MXSdw&ithint=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=bcf75e8ad40adf0d!1426&authkey=!AAJOZyTYrN-x0CQ&ithint=folder%2cjpg
BobKatNavigator’s panel twin switch
Success – I hope! With acknowledgements to the RAF Bomber Command website, I came across this photograph in the section dealing with navigational and technological advances. It is illustrating the introduction of Gee in 1942 and it seems to be a contemporaneous photograph. It may therefore be dated in 1942 or 1943.
ED908 was delivered to the RAF in April 1943, and was equipped with Gee Mk.II (ARI 5083). Its H2S equipment was replaced by Oboe (ARI 5582) in July 1944. The Gee equipment is on the left in the photograph, but in front of the navigator to his right (where circled in red) is a twin switch on the panel. This seems to establish that this configuration of the navigator’s panel was in use in wartime, and therefore that it is highly likely that this type of twin switch would have been used on ED908.
This has exhausted the items which I have recently been able to identify with the new information I have to hand, but there are a small number of distinctive items which were on the table display from location 1 in May 2012 and which were photographed again on the display in July 2014. It may be possible to identify some of these items with the help of new pictures from a different angle, and if I think they might be useful after I have had a closer look at the photographs, I will post them in the hope that someone may be able to assist.
BobKatI have recently obtained a copy of a Parts List for the Packard-manufactured Merlin engine (68 and 69) used in the P-51 Mustang. Whilst this is not the version of the engine used in the Lancaster Mk.III (XX and 28), it nevertheless provides some good illustrations of the parts used, many of which were presumably similar or identical. In particular, it records that the Packard parts are numbered from 600001 upwards.
We have two items so numbered. Our Crankcase breather (post #452) is numbered 602975 – in the list it appears numbered 602974, suggesting that variants were numbered consecutively. This was found on the eastern edge of the forest.
ED908’s engine numbers were recorded as:
Port outer: Merlin 28 A.970/265779
Port inner: Merlin 28 A.870/265714
Starboard inner: Merlin 28 A.957/265771
Starboard outer: Merlin 28 A.7921.326740
I know that the Merlin 28 was built by Packard as the V-1650-1. The starboard outer has a different style of reference number – perhaps a replacement for the original? As far as I can tell, Rolls-Royce did not manufacture this variant. No doubt somebody will correct me if I am wrong.
We also have a piece described by WV-903 in post #741; “604440 looks to be a fluid drain plug with an inner “Dip stick” or sludge trap/check and I suspect is engine related. A piece of what looks like copper locking wire is still attached.” This item is illustrated in the Parts List where it is numbered 604439 (again an adjacent number to the piece found): it is a priming pipe filter, so WV-903’s description proved to be very much on the right lines. This piece was found on the northern edge of the forest, so presumably not from the same engine as the crankcase breather, unless pieces were widely scattered in an explosion.
This Parts List could prove very useful for any future finds of engine pieces.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=BCF75E8AD40ADF0D!164&authkey=!AJrxfdmdr6MXSdw&ithint=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=bcf75e8ad40adf0d!1426&authkey=!AAJOZyTYrN-x0CQ&ithint=folder%2cjpg
BobKatBeermat, the last I heard was they were working through the Casualty Branch P4 Missing Personnel reports in date order and that the 1944 report (which I am seeking) was not going to be available until late 2016 at the earliest. From what you say this may now seem a little optimistic?
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