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BobKat

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April 13, 2015 at 11:07 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #852288

BobKat
Participant

That would be my guess Bob… Would these be the bottles?

Peter, I was replying to Terry P just as you posted your response. Do you think these are the nitrogen bottles? If so, perhaps we have our answer. But it would be good to have any thoughts about the use of sprung valves of this type on the aircraft.

April 13, 2015 at 11:04 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #852290

BobKat
Participant

Many thanks Terry P.

I have been looking at the Lancaster Manual and other diagrams. I have found details of the oxygen system, but I can find nothing about the nitrogen supply needed for the high pressure reducing valve. Maybe this was a later development – do you have any indication as to when this might have first appeared?

We seem to be in the position that we have tentatively identified our piece No.86 as a valve connection with a spring of the type illustrated. Our first thoughts that was attached directly to a cylinder are now in some doubt – but could this still be the case? Would this type of sprung valve have been fitted to oxygen cylinders? What other functions might it have? Can anyone add anything more to our deliberations, please?

April 13, 2015 at 7:24 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #852413

BobKat
Participant

Thanks WV-903 and Peter – a sudden flurry of activity!! I had no idea that nitrogen cylinders were in use on the Mk.III Lancaster. I hadn’t spotted any reference in the Lancaster Manual, but maybe it is tucked away somewhere. I’ll have another look.

What seems to have emerged is that we have a valve of some sort. Laurent’s description of a spiral metal coating could easily be a spring now, with age, stuck to the sides of the piping, which fits with the first diagram.

Peter, is the piece we are looking at what seems to be a round black item, almost dead centre of the picture, surrounded by pipework?

April 13, 2015 at 4:17 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #852580

BobKat
Participant

WV-903 – many thanks to you and Terry P – that looks very interesting.

Item 86 was found not far from a piece from the port undercarriage well – para.44 in the diagram records that this item was generally mounted in the undercarriage wheel housings. Laurent says that there is a spiral coating which would fit with the diagram. So a definite possibility, even though the picture in the diagram looks a bit different, the basic structure looks similar.

Now to try to find some pictures of its position in the wheel well !!!

April 13, 2015 at 8:39 am in reply to: New Member With A Lancaster Story To Tell And Parts To Identify #852891

BobKat
Participant

Hennie, your 27N coded item is proving very elusive. All we seem to be able to say with certainty is that it is fire equipment related.

With regard to Memorial Flight, Tom seems to have contacted you in the same way as he did me some months ago. I am now a member of the LLA – you may be able to obtain a copy of the last issue of the magazine if you join. There is a private message awaiting you regarding the article about ED908.

April 12, 2015 at 7:07 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #853284

BobKat
Participant

I have just heard from Laurent, who has replied as follows:

Piece No.86 is hollow. One end is coppery and the other is coppery in the middle, with a spiral metal coating that seems to protect or strengthen this part!

I agree with you Peter that the piece is most likely to be Oxygen related. Looking closely at your picture, the Tee pieces for the pipe fitting seem to be offset from the attachment to the cylinder, with a separate clamping fitting over the top of the cylinder. Perhaps our fragment is hidden from view and is the direct attachment to the metal cylinder?

April 12, 2015 at 12:24 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #853708

BobKat
Participant

Peter, that’s a great picture, thank you very much – just what I had been looking for without success! It confirms what I had suspected – that the oxygen pipe connections were with Tee fittings. I am assuming our piece is right-angled from the picture, but I am waiting for Laurent to confirm.

I have looked at pictures of other gas cylinders, but it does not seem to be from the dinghy inflation system, the emergency air cylinders (which have Tee fittings), the compressed air container, or from the fire extinguishers, so we seem to be running out of options unless it is part of the pneumatic system. Perhaps we need to consider something else – hydraulics or oil as suggested by WV-903? What would have a brass fitting?

This one is beginning to look a little tricky!

April 11, 2015 at 11:23 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #854001

BobKat
Participant

Thanks for your thoughts WV-903. I have asked Laurent if the left-hand end is solid or hollow and I am awaiting his reply. I think it is a right-angle set up, not a Tee. It does not seem to be from a portable oxygen cylinder, but I am wondering whether it might be from one of the larger oxygen bottles for the emergency air or pneumatic system? I am looking for pictures and will post something if I can find a possible candidate.

April 11, 2015 at 11:17 pm in reply to: New Member With A Lancaster Story To Tell And Parts To Identify #854003

BobKat
Participant

The story of ED908 was in the last issue – you may have seen it – including a stunning digital image of the scene just after the aircraft was hit by flak. I’ll look forward to reading more about your story shortly – it should be published very soon.

But back to the Fire Extinguisher mount – the design of these will probably have changed over time (the AM reference numbers are different) – I thought the mangled bit in the centre which you have arrowed in post #130 might possibly have been where the cylindrical metal support for the extinguisher was attached?

April 11, 2015 at 4:45 pm in reply to: New Member With A Lancaster Story To Tell And Parts To Identify #854283

BobKat
Participant

Hennie, while trawling the internet for something different, I came across the picture below which is described as a Graviner Fire Extinguisher Mount – 27N/149. Although the reference number is different from your piece, it looks very similar.

April 10, 2015 at 5:39 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #854950

BobKat
Participant

Many thanks Peter – good thinking – it definitely has that look about it, but it doesn’t quite match up with the photos of portable oxygen cylinder attachments I have so far seen. I’ll keep looking.

April 10, 2015 at 10:04 am in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #855431

BobKat
Participant

New find: piece No.86

I have continued to puzzle over Mike’s Avro drawing of the forward side of the rear bomb bay bulkhead. I have found a picture of the bomb bay of NX611 which shows the parts on Peter’s last picture link (post #907), and also what appears to be a short stiffener on the forward side of the bulkhead between the hydraulic jacks with two rivets in the position shown by the drawing. It seems therefore that the reference to a stiffener on the Avro drawing is unrelated to the configuration on the rear side of the bulkhead. The fittings outlined in dotted lines on the drawing appear to be those fitted on the rear side – most obviously the vertical stiffeners shown in Peter’s original picture (post #894). So presumably the rivet positions for the short horizontal stiffener are amongst those shown in my diagram (post #899). Looking at Peter’s picture, these would appear to be those placed in the upper row where 7 rivet positions are shown.

Laurent is trying to locate the potential stiffener, but not all the pieces found at location 1 are now in his possession. It may be that the only information we can obtain is from the pictures I have already posted. If so, we are left with the likelihood that it is the angle-ended stiffener from the rear side of the bulkhead.

In the meantime Laurent has found another piece on the upper slopes of the forest near item 80 – our mysterious ‘handle’. He says that there are some illegible marks that could be of the Avro type. The piece is distinctively shaped and Laurent says that it appears to be made of brass (‘laiton’). Does anyone recognise this, please?

Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=bcf75e8ad40adf0d!164&authkey=!AJrxfdmdr6MXSdw&ithint=folder%2cjpg

April 6, 2015 at 10:35 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #859127

BobKat
Participant

Mike, many thanks for the revised explanation. – no need for apologies – your comments and drawings are very much appreciated! We seem to have two possible candidates for our piece – (1) the one you first pictured with the fairlead, and (2) the stiffener which is mentioned (but not pictured) on the drawing. Unless we can obtain more details from Laurent, it is difficult to tell, but it seems marginally more likely that we may be looking at the horizontal stiffener which appears to fit snugly between the two vertical stiffeners (?) on the rearward side, and which may therefore be slightly shorter than the first. We do however have a hydraulic valve (at the bottom of Peter’s photo) from the forward side of the bulkhead amongst the pieces found nearby.

I guess that’s probably as far as we can take it for now – many thanks again for your help.

April 6, 2015 at 4:42 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #859554

BobKat
Participant

Many thanks, Peter – that’s very helpful. Let’s hope Laurent can find the piece to see if we have a match!!

April 6, 2015 at 3:50 pm in reply to: Wreckage Of Lancaster ED908 (60-Z) #859617

BobKat
Participant

So, we seem to have a stiffener not depicted on the Avro drawing? In which case maybe I have confused everybody by going round in a circle back to square one!!

Our piece may very well be what you have pictured – I don’t suppose you have a higher resolution version of the photo which would show the rivet pattern?
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