BobKatInteresting finds, Hennie. The joint on item 2 looks like the fitting for a rubber hose attachment – oil venting maybe? I assume no part numbers are visible? Peter may well be able to help.
BobKatHello Hennie – I have just posted a reply on your thread before discovering your post here.
I can’t add much detail about the parachute harness buckles and fittings, My understanding is that two of the crew were thrown clear of the aircraft as it crashed, and that the (unopened) parachute of one was retrieved and the silk used to make blouses by the villagers. I imagine that the clip was part of this retrieved harness which is why it is in such good condition. I have looked at several illustrations of harness fittings to try to identify what we have, but the picture in the photo gallery seems to include a number of varieties, not necessarily all from the same harness. Sorry not to be of more help.
BobKatHennie,
Good to hear from you. Glad all went well on the day. We had over 30 relatives present at the Freulleville church back in July plus local dignitaries. A brief report is on the Lancaster ED908 thread
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?120747-Wreckage-Of-Lancaster-ED908-(60-Z)/page26
Post #759 shows the memorial and, interestingly, post #768 further down the page shows a piece of parachute harness retrieved from the wreckage in 1944, similar to yours.
BobKatAerial photographs of wreckage area
Continuing the theme of my last post about historical aerial imagery available from Géoportail, I have added the pictures below to the photo gallery. These are three views in different years of the same area of the forest where the wreckage of ED908 has been found. They have been extended to show the road through the forest and the location of the V1 launch ramp in relation to the crash site at the bottom left.
The 1947 view shows where trees and wartime debris have been cleared, the tree canopy having previously been largely intact. The path which continues up the slopes of the forest from the lane at its northern edge is clearly visible. The denuded area next to the path alongside the field on the eastern edge of the forest is where pieces of what is assumed to be the port wing have been found. A disturbance in the trees at this spot, almost certainly caused by the burning and exploding wreckage of the aircraft, can be seen in an aerial reconnaissance photograph taken in August 1944. This shows a few gaps in the trees to the right of the road, either caused by stray bombs or by the falling wreckage of the aircraft. Copyright restrictions prevent me from including this picture, but the bomb craters near the V1 launch ramp from the wartime attacks are still visible in the 1947 picture.
The 1952 view shows the area prepared for replanting of the forest in the affected areas with the bomb craters no longer so evident, and the 1985 view shows the regenerated forest canopy with the conifers next to the bend in the road appearing darker than the adjacent deciduous trees.
All that is visible of the former V1 site in later aerial photographs, is a glimpse through the trees of the crescent-shaped turning ‘circle’ next to the road by the site of the old assembly workshop, the foundations of which still survive amongst the undergrowth.
These pictures show the area of about a quarter-of-a-mile square (around 40 acres/16 hectares) in which Laurent has been searching, mostly between the two forest paths, but with a few pieces discovered nearer the road. They also indicate the areas from which wreckage would have been removed after the war, with the likelihood that only small buried fragments of the aircraft would have been left behind in the cleared parts. Given the activity revealed by the photographs, it must be doubtful that there will be much more wreckage to be discovered on the upper slopes of the forest. The pieces which have been found are mostly on the fringes of the cleared areas and amongst the trees along the northern and eastern edges of the forest. The enormity of Laurent’s task can be well imagined, and he has been remarkably successful in discovering so many pieces which have enabled us to build a picture of how the aircraft came to earth.
BobKatLaurent is currently waiting for some good weather to coincide with his available time for further searches for wreckage!!
In the meantime he has told me of images available on the French web mapping site, Géoportail.
In a similar way to GoogleEarth this provides historical imagery with some high resolution aerial photography. Images can be downloaded in .jp2 format for which viewing software may be required.
As a result of my exploring the website, I have now established that the aerial photograph with which the photo gallery starts is from an aerial mapping survey undertaken in 1947 by IGN (the equivalent of the UK Ordnance Survey). There seem to be no unduly onerous copyright restrictions on use of the images – simply a requirement for non-commercial use, an acknowledgement of the source, and a limit to the size of the image reproduced. I have therefore added two images to the gallery as below.
The first shows the 1947 aerial view of the Forêt du Croc with the location of the V1 launch ramp circled in red and the area covered by the plan of the wreckage found framed in yellow.
The second shows an interesting comparison between the view in 1947 and that in 1952 when another aerial survey was undertaken. In the latter picture, the surviving foundations of a number of the V1 site buildings, not visible in the former, can be seen following the clearance of the trees and wartime debris. The subsequent foliage from growing trees now conceals all these from an aerial view, but they can still be found amongst the undergrowth of the forest.
BobKatPlan of wreckage found
It is time I updated Laurent’s plan of the locations of the pieces of wreckage found. Discoveries over the six months to the end of December are highlighted in yellow on the attached extract from the plan. The most recent were on the eastern edge of the forest and I have marked these as being from the Main Plane.
The full-sized plan is in the photo gallery.
BobKatThanks again Peter. That seems to narrow the choice to the two pieces I have illustrated, so our best guess seems to be that they may be as I have suggested?
BobKatMany thanks Peter. Both our pieces have six bolts and seem to be different from each other. So far the only diagrams I have found showing six bolt fittings (rather than eight) are those I have posted. Do any of the others you mention (in particular Fig.164) show six bolts? Unless Laurent is able to clean up his finds and reveal some part numbers, at present we have nothing more to guide us.
BobKatPeter, as far as I can tell the fuel tank fitting was only on the No.1 tank (which I have). If you have details of similar fittings on the the other fuel tanks, then I would be glad to have these. The missing details are for the inboard oil tank which appears to be either diagram 164 or 165 (or both) which I do not have. I am assuming that there are likely to be similar fittings to those illustrated in the top right of the picture on my last post?
Maybe you could e-mail anything you can find which might help?
BobKatItems 3 and 82
First, a Happy New Year to all the followers of this thread.
Laurent has sent some more photos to enable comparison between items 3 and 82. The diagrams now incorporate Peter’s suggestion of the oil tank hydromatic fitting and gasket (on the right). The fuel tank elbow and washer is on the left, with the air vent for comparison in the middle.
The two pieces are pictured from the top, bottom and side, with 82 on the left and 3 on the right. This shows that the old item No.3 is smaller than the new item, No.82, the elbow of which is broken but the washer is intact. It seems to me that item 3 is definitely the right shape for the oil tank fitting, with its distinctive end for a rubber attachment to the oil circulation pipe, but its gasket (or washer) seems to be missing with the screws (or bolts) projecting, as depicted in the diagram of the lower fitting on the underside of the oil tank. (Parts 7 and 8 in the diagram are described as Fillister head screws in the parts list). If this identification is correct, then item 82 is something different – which, by a process of elimination, appears to mean that it must be a fuel tank fitting with a (langite) washer as distinct from a gasket?
I do not know what a langite washer would look like after 70 years, but Laurent says the washer on the new piece has the appearance of aluminium alloy. Maybe langite was not used in the British-built Mk.III aircraft? The parts list to which Peter and I are referring is for post-war use of the Canadian-built Mk.X Lancaster.
Can anyone throw any light on the relative sizes of these attachments and the use of washers and gaskets for the fuel and oil tanks, please?
Whatever the answer, what is now apparent is that we have a small collection of pieces from the main plane found between the engine and undercarriage pieces on the one hand and the outer wing on the other.
The full resolution photographs of the pieces are available on the photo gallery (link below).
BobKatItem 82
Thanks Peter – I am glad we agree that item 82 is probably the fuel tank elbow – I am not entirely sure of its purpose from the description in the listing.
Thanks Geoff – I am not certain how Laurent will be able to tell whether the washer is langite, but it will presumably be readily distinguishable from aluminium alloy. I assume no part numbers are visible or Laurent would have confirmed them – they may be hidden on the inside edges of the pieces. I will ask. I understand the material provided soft jointing and that it was resistant to oils and petrol.
For followers of the thread who are confused by the references to part numbers, I attach a diagram showing the potential identification of piece 82 with its langite washer highlighted in pink on the left and numbered 62 and 63. As can be seen this has six bolt holes, not the eight shown for the similarly shaped, but larger, air vent highlighted in blue on the right.
BobKatPeter, I was thinking perhaps page 468, items 62/63? Both pieces look similar. Yours is from the outboard oil tank. Mine is from the inboard fuel tank. Pieces found nearby are from the outer wing, so yours may be more likely. Many thanks.
……………………
Laurent informs me that items 82, 83 and 85 were found close to each other. As 85 comes from the undercarriage well, it looks as if 82 might be marginally more likely to come from the inboard fuel tank.
BobKatThanks Peter. Laurent says that item 82 looks similar to our item 3, but its mounting is different. I wonder whether it might be a broken elbow from the fuel tank with a fragment of the fuel tank skin trapped between the elbow and the washer? We might be able to confirm this if Laurent can find a number.
Also Laurent thinks item 83 is a starter motor armature. Having found some pictures of similar parts, I think this is almost certainly the answer.
Item 84 is made from copper.
BobKatPieces 82, 83, 84 and 85
Laurent has found some more pieces near the eastern edge of the forest where engine parts have previously been discovered.
The first, No.82, is pictured from both sides. No.83 is distinctively shaped and is pictured side-on and from both ends. No.84 is a small piece of fractured pipe which may have a number – I have asked Laurent to confirm.
I have managed to identify the last piece, No.85. It is numbered 3SS 3554 and is a cross-piece from the undercarriage hydraulic system on the front spar. The complete length of pipe attached is about 1.6m (5ft 3in) long (not pictured). The two AGS 904 sleeves are of different diameters: ‘D’ is 1.01 inches across the flat edges and is for a ½ inch BSP fitting: ‘F’ is 1.20 inches across and is for a ¾ inch BSP fitting. This piece is found on both the port and starboard wings and I am waiting for an updated plan from Laurent to confirm exactly where it was found.
Can anyone help with items 82 and 83, please?
BobKatThanks Peter. We don’t seem to be getting any warmer!!
Unless someone else comes up with another idea, the trail on this one appears to have gone cold!
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