BobKatMore finds
There has been a real flurry of activity in France with more discoveries at location 49 and another at location 50. I have asked Laurent if he can clean up the pronged item in picture 44 to see if there are any markings and if he can photograph it from other angles. Picture 49 shows several unidentified items – the long piece at the bottom may be distinguishable. 49C includes what I assume is an oil pipe numbered 11Q 589 R3138, a piece numbered 15V 2068, and at the top right what looks to be an access panel locking pin similar to one already found (post #64). At the top of 49D is what appears to be one of the engine supporting frame struts. A cropped picture with acknowledgements to the photo gallery of aircraftresourcecenter shows the oil pipe running along the wing’s leading edge behind the bulkhead, and what may be the strut arrowed.
Item 50 is interesting – it seems to be the other half of one of the pieces pictured in photo 45. If they have split at the weak point, together they would make a fitting with a central circular aperture. Alternatively they are two similar pieces with a semi-circular aperture and a squared-pattern on their face.
On looking through the Lancaster Manual, the broken triangular piece with the two bolt holes in picture 45 looks as if it might be like a broken part of the layshaft for the outboard engine controls in the main plane. Could this be right?
Item 46 has what seems to be an Avro part number 3SS 2046, and others referred to above may also be Avro part numbers. Can anyone help with these, please?
I had wondered whether item 48 might be an oil filter, but the hole on both sides on the left of the main (top) picture makes it appear to be more like a supporting strut where something passed through the holes. All very curious!
I suppose we should consider that these pieces may not all be from an engine, but could be from part of the wing.
Can anyone throw any light on anything, please?
BobKatNot to worry, Peter. Let’s hope someone can help with the ‘pronged’ item at the top of 44 and item 48 which are the most intriguing.
BobKatPeter, PM has been sent again. Many thanks.
Hope you might be able to help on the latest batch of photos – I have just received some more with new finds. I will post these after giving time for responses to the last batch.
BobKatNew finds 44 to 49
Peter, WV-903,
I don’t think Laurent is going to be able to do much more about the ‘Inspector’ plate – he has already tried to clean it, but it is badly damaged. As always I am looking for photos of the pieces found in their original state. I haven’t found anything yet for an oil cooler or for a camshaft bearing – can anyone point me in the right direction please, perhaps with the aid of a picture or a diagram? The same will apply to the latest batch of photos which follow.
Laurent tells me that the track beside the forest is at present too muddy to allow normal vehicular access, which is why he has not yet returned to location 12 for further exploration. However it is beginning to look from the items found at location 40 [M6] and new finds at locations 44 to 49 as if he may have found pieces of another engine, which could be from the port outer.
The attached pictures are of items all found close to location 40 and near to item 11, which was identified by Air Ministry as a piece of the outer wing rib no.17.
The ‘pronged’ top item in picture 44 is unidentified. Under it is a pipe joint with an Avro code number R3 226. The distinctively shaped piece A is pictured from two angles.
Underneath the rusty piece of metal at the top of picture 45, at the lower left, is a substantial triangular-shaped fragment with bolt holes which is about 12 cm wide. The thick piece to the left above it has part of a circular edge at the top. The thinner aluminium piece to the right has a plain circular space at the edge where it has fragmented and another above where a broken fitting can be seen attached.
In picture 46 there is a three-way union numbered 3SS 2046 of a different nature to item 39.
Picture 47 shows a rectangular-shaped frame about 18cm (7 inches) across with a bolt attachment at the top right corner. The separate piece positioned in the centre has a keyhole shaped aperture on the left end of the rectangular bolted attachment.
Item 48 is hollow and has the reference number 602975 J on one end (pictured at the bottom left). On its body it has the letters ‘ME’ and ‘No’. Its other end is similarly shaped to our mysterious butterfly valve, item 12, but Laurent thinks that the two pieces are not connected and hopes that the reference number may provide a clue.
Item 49 has an AGS 711 H (1” BSP) sleeve. The angled bottom part found close by appears to have fractured from the top part.
Can anyone help to identify any of these items, please, or confirm whether they are (or are not) engine parts?
BobKatWV-903,
Laurent has confirmed that the diameter of the roller bearing is approximately 45mm. Amongst the sleeves recently found are AGS 711/J and AGS 711/H which are brass/cadmium 1″ and 1.25″ BSP fittings – much larger than the earlier find (see Air Ministry’s post #301).
BobKatThanks Peter and WV-903 – very helpful comments. What would the “Inspector” plate have been for – the whole engine assembly or merely one of the components?
Laurent has found some more pieces which may be engine parts close by. I will post photos in due course.
BobKatMore finds at location 40
The weather in France has not been good but Laurent has found a few more pieces at location 40 where part of an oil filter was found (post #351). There now seems to be clear evidence of a number of engine parts there.
The first two pictures below (M6A and M6B) show the items found. The third (No.40F) shows some additional pieces including another of WV-903’s split cotters (see post #205) – the first item in the second row – and, in the centre, two pieces marked SS 3704. Any further information on these (or anything else in the pictures) would be welcomed please.
Also attached is a close-up of two of the items in the first picture (40 A) and three items with reference numbers (40 B) – a hexagonal-ended piece, AG 770, and two damaged plates, one for an oil cooler and another which I cannot identify.
Any further information on these last items and/or pictures of the equipment in their original states would be very much appreciated – in particular what is the SP ?? TOR at the bottom of picture 40 B?
BobKatPortable Oxygen Cylinder (AM 6D/432)
Peter, yes, it is remarkably well preserved.
The only significant damage is to the on/off knob and to the air supply gauge at the end of the cylinder (pictured below) which has, unsurprisingly, lost its dial face. It is interesting to see the inner workings of the gauge. There seem to be at least two types of gauge used (pictured with acknowledgements to spitfirespares), but I am not sure which we have: the AM marking would be underneath and not visible unless the piece could be detached – probably best left alone!
Can anybody explain the markings on the neck of the cylinder, please? The Mk.VB portable cylinder itself seems to be AM reference 6D/432. The AM29102/42 could, I suppose, be an examination mark at the time of manufacture, and the 9/43 could be a later inspection mark?
BobKatItems 42 and 43
A slightly belated happy New Year to followers of this thread.
Laurent has not yet found anything at the bottom of the hole he dug a little while ago – if the weather in France has been anything like that being experienced in England, I strongly suspect that it is now full of water!
However, the good news is that he has found something new in two locations numbered 42 and 43 which are some distance apart from each other in the fields next to the forest. It is curious that the objects were not all found close together as they are a virtually intact portable oxygen cylinder (#42) and two connector parts (#43) which may or may not be part of the same apparatus. The last two items were found with some traces of burnt rubber.
The markings on the neck of the cylinder are: MK.VB 6D/432MN 9/43 AM29102/42. What I think may be a cover for the outlet valve is marked AM 6D/227.
I am grateful to flightgear.ch whose website provided the photographs illustrating the pieces including the knob with the words “OFF – USE NO OIL OR GREASE – ON” part of which can be seen in picture #42.
BobKatThanks, Wyverfan.
T-21, many thanks – I hoped someone might be able to identify it. Here is another (poor quality) picture of Paris – a B-26 (?) this time with a few others in the shot from the viewing platform.
BobKatThis B-17 (I think) seems to have managed to get a bit lower! I have just posted the picture on the “Airfields photos – Then and Now” thread, but it seemed appropriate to add it here.
I have no idea what the occasion was – perhaps the parade mentioned earlier? The photo came to light recently amongst a small number found amongst the possessions of my son-in-law’s step-father. He was a rear gunner in a B-26.
**********
Answer now on the “Airfield photos – Then and Now” thread.
BobKatWhich airfield was that, Wyvernfan?
The next photo does not quite fall into the category of an airfield, but it is certainly “then and now”!
The aircraft is (I think) a B-17, but I have no idea what the post-war occasion in Paris was. The photo came to light recently amongst a small number found amongst the possessions of my son-in-law’s step-father. He was a rear gunner in a B-26.
BobKatExcellent news. I see from the CWGC database that David Morgan Ellis is the son of David and Jane Ellis and that he was married to Iris May of Cwmgors[e], Carmarthenshire. Unfortunately my subscription to Ancestry has expired, but a search of these records might reveal any children and subsequent marriages if you have not already done this.
It is surprising how often wartime memories are blanked out by families, and are only revived by the curiosity of later generations. I followed the route suggested above and found a possible relative for the final (eighth) family I was seeking, but seemingly they were unconnected. It is, of course, sometimes the case that relatives do not want to be found, or that they have no wish to revive memories of events which they find painful to think about. I hope you have better luck than I have had so far with finding the last family of your crew.
BobKatDunlop Main Landing Wheels and Brake Units
Just to round off the comments on the Lancaster’s main landing wheels and brake units, I visited the National Archives yesterday to look at their copy of AP2337. This was dated 1947 and provided a diagram of divided wheel type AH10158 with its brake unit type AH10160. This shows “an integral tyre retaining flange which is hollow and open to the atmosphere to cool the rims under braking conditions” as shown in Peter’s picture in post #411. The diagram is not dissimilar to one of those in WV-903’s post #396.
It then specifically referred to wheel type AH2238 (used by the Lancaster) saying that it was similar to the type illustrated in the diagram, but with some variations in the hub assemblies, and that it took a 24-19 tyre (rather than a 17.50–18 tyre). Its pneumatic brake unit AH8057 is illustrated showing the inflatable brake bag air supply connection. It says that each brake shoe was fitted with two spiral springs.
Similar wheel assemblies were said to be AH10004, used with a 15-16 tyre, and AH2233, used with a 26.50-21 tyre. The latter is the type shown in Air Ministry’s post #415 (used by the Stirling).
I will post any relevant pictures if Laurent finds something from the wheel assembly which can be identified.
BobKatianh,
Glad to hear that you are making good progress – good luck with the remaining three.
I thought that you probably had a P4 report – as you say, much easier to get hold of in Australia than in the UK, although it does now seem that these should be available at Kew from next year. I may have a long wait as I understand that the earliest reports will be available first and mine is in 1944!
I received your message on my return home. Tomorrow morning would be a good time to talk.
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