Thanks, Air Ministry. I see that your diagram is of a Manchester turret which appears to be of a slightly different configuration to the Lancaster FN5. I shall be interested to hear what Peter has to say if his turret is constructed in another way.

Peter, I am a little confused following your edited post – the FN5 turret now appears to be on the left.

BobKat,
Is the area I have highlighted the area you are referring to here?

Yes, that’s it.

Visit to Yorkshire Air Museum: items 27 and 31

I attach some pictures taken of the gun turrets on display at the Yorkshire Air Museum.

The right hand picture of the FN5 front turret shows a strip of perspex with seven bolts in the middle of the top of the turret. If the perspex overlaps here, this could be a possibility for item 27 (post #174).

The left picture of the FN120 turret is in the Air Gunner’s exhibition: that in the centre is of the FN20 turret (located in the Bomber Command exhibition hall). I could not view anything from the inside, but the exterior view leaves item 31 (post #196) in doubt as previously. The right hand picture (the clarity of which is not helped by the flash reflection in a dimly lit area) shows the upright metalwork at the inward end of the turret – the bolts are set off-centre but I could not see whether the perspex overlapped the adjacent strut at this point, as in item 27.

The FN150 mid-upper turret pictures are not as clear as I would have wished, but there was nothing evident from these to suggest that item 27 came from this source (the bolts were centrally placed), and the close-up was inconclusive as far as item 31 was concerned. Where would the flanged part fit?

I suspect that we are no further forward – if item 27 does not come from the top of the FN5 front turret or from the back of the FN20 rear turret as illustrated, it seems most likely to be part of an unknown modification or repair.

Unless item 31 can be identified as relating to a turret, we may be looking for something quite different with a circular frame from some other part of the aircraft – I have mentioned the camera aperture – what about one of the observation windows into the bomb bay? What would have a flanged edge?

Some identified items: 6 – Engine parts

While we are waiting to hear more from France, I am attaching one of the photos requested by WV-903, labelled M2 showing two cam followers where the effect of corrosion on the two different metals used is very striking. M3 showing the anti-vibration mount and propeller pitch gear was included with my post #4.

WV-903, you will, I am sure, be interested in our most recent find over the weekend. At a hostelry about a couple of miles from my home the guest ale turned out to be “Lancaster Bomber”, quite a long way from its native Lancashire. A thoroughly appropriate means of celebration!!

Some midnight oil being burnt last night, although not quite so late in Canada!!

Thanks everyone.

First, WV-903:

Very helpful comments – ‘H’ is certainly a distinctive shape. I will see if I can find out more. We have a number of identified engine parts: anti-vibration mount, two cam rockers, and a magneto sprung strap. Let me know if you would like me to post pictures.

Peter and turretboy,

I don’t know what the roundel-like thing is on the flange. I think this is the piece that Laurent described as a steel rivet. The other side of it can be seen on the right in the bottom right photo, and it can be seen protruding from the flange in the top left photo. We have all angles covered!!!

Laurent mentions some traces of black paint in the top left picture. No doubt this would have been used in a turret? But it occurred to me that the front cabin area might also have been painted black. I am probably way off in the wrong direction, but what things might there be in that area of the sort of size we are looking at – an equipment mount – the camera aperture? And, why do the rivets have a studded appearance?

Let’s try this:

Laurent,

(1) Is it possible for you to e-mail me a photo of the other side of item ‘H’ in my post #195 please?
(2) can you describe whether the item at the top left of your photo X2 is a steel rivet or whether it could be a snap fastener?

(1) est-il possible pour vous de m’envoyer un e-mail avec une photo de l’autre côté de objet ‘H’ dans mon post # 195 s’il vous plaît?
(2) Pouvez-vous décrire si l’élément en haut à gauche de votre photo X2 est un rivet en acier ou si elle pourrait être un bouton pression?

Any French speakers are welcome to come to my aid!

WV-903 – an unexpected response on something new – many thanks.

Fasteners

We have several fasteners amongst the wreckage found. I attach a picture of the type which seems to have been used to hold the flares in place (top left intact, and top right with a bit of the webbing still attached next to some electrical pieces and that piece of window – or is it a piece of a capacitor – see my post #116 and #147 from Derbyhaven – any thoughts anyone?).

In the middle row are pictures of pieces in situ, left and centre, plus a picture of the ladder (right). Could your toothed bit come from the fastener at the end of the ladder, for example? Do you have any pictures of a complete fitting?

In the bottom row is another sort of fastener – the bottom hinged one (along with a button and a parachute fastener), the purpose of which is unknown.

Fuses and bits

I attach a better view (from W3) of the piece you were querying ‘A’, and several other items including a broken fuse ‘E’. We have already identified the items circled in red (see post #22) and I have marked the others with identification letters to facilitate your reply.

Over to you!

Thanks turretboy, I will see if I can get a better picture from France.

……….

Have sent e-mail – it may take a day or two before I get a response.

Thanks, Peter. We seem to be back at square one.

The piece isn’t being recognised as anything standard, which seems to lead to the conclusion that it is not a normal fitting, and that we may therefore be in the realms of a modification or repair. In which case it is anybody’s guess as to what it might be! Our only clue is that something found close by is known to have come from the rear turret area.

We know that from the end of November 1943 to the beginning of July 1944, or thereabouts, ED908 was allocated to the NTU-PFF, where it was no doubt involved in numerous “circuits and bumps” and cross-country training exercises. Exactly when it was fitted with Oboe is not known, and all I can tell from the Oboe interconnection diagram I found at the National Archives is that there were two directive aerials, depicted diagrammatically as “|-)” for signals from the “cat” and “mouse” stations. I take it that this means that the aerials would be pointed towards the signal source as the aircraft flew on a pre-determined source. I don’t know where they would have been situated on the aircraft, but this may well have required some modification to the canopy or perhaps even to the H2S blister if it remained fitted to the aircraft. Maybe this is our explanation.

As this was the pioneer Oboe Lancaster, and so few were fitted out subsequently, it may be virtually impossible to find out more. I think the Oboe equipment was fitted in the nose of the Mosquito, but that doesn’t really help much with regard to the Lancaster.

We are probably not going to be able to take this one any further. A shame, but so be it.