BobKatThanks for the clarification austernj673. As you say, it looks to have been cut in half. I will try to find a picture, but if you have one you could post, or if you could point me in the right direction to find one, that would be much appreciated.
BobKatBomb or Air Bottle?
Thanks, Peter – from what you say, it seems as if the 90-degree connector may well be from the spark-plug cables. I attach a diagram and a picture of a fuze for the ‘bomb’ – it doesn’t look quite the right shape for the small piece at the front which appears to have a small opening at the top – what do you think?
Thanks also austernj673. I can see what you mean about the shape of the piece (which is about 80cm high), but that lug is confusing (a bit difficult to enlarge clearly, but arrowed in the picture)? Would an air bottle have something like that attached?
BobKatUXB
Although there have been no responses on the forum to my last postings, the number of views seems to suggest that interest is continuing. I will therefore keep posting.
My work on marshalling information and recording all the wreckage that has been found to date was briefly interrupted yesterday by a new discovery!
A small cache of bomb casings has been found by chance, some distance from one of the paths through the forest. Two had been crushed on impact, but the intact casing of a third unexploded and deactivated 500lb General Purpose bomb survives. Unsurprisingly, it is missing its tail-fin, but it still has its suspension lug attached. I am not sure what the small piece at the bottom of the picture is – it looks as if it may have been part of the nose attachment?
According to the local residents, the V1 site was attacked five times and this bomb will almost certainly have come from one of the other missions. It seems likely that the bombs were all made safe during or shortly after the war and then stacked in a small pile. For the sake of the local residents I certainly hope this is the case, or walking in the forest may be rather more dangerous than thought!
BobKatSome identified items: 1
Peter, I am very grateful for your time and patience in bringing your expertise to bear on this topic, and also to the others who have contributed. It seems that our dialogue is drawing to a close at least for the time being, pending further discoveries. I do hope that others on the forum may yet have something to add on the outstanding matters. I expect that I may be raising a few more questions when I post pictures of some of the identified pieces (as below)!
I understand from France that at the time of the crash there was a German bakery which had been built on the slope not far from the main crash site, and that a number of Mauser cartridges have been found. Just to make the task more complicated, it is conceivable that some of what has been found is German equipment!
Attached are the first of a few pictures of some of the identified items:
3. This shows an inspection panel from the underside of the tail-plane with its marker plate still attached – no doubt about the identification of this one! I can’t imagine that many of these survive intact?
V. This is identified in the sense that it is known to be a 90-degree electrical connection. But what is all that coiled wiring? Could this be one of the spark-plug connections – does anyone have any ideas where this might have come from?
BobKatThe last of the survivors?
Catching up with my newspaper reading last night, I was saddened to see the obituary of Gerry O’Donovan, Pathfinder master bomber who died, aged 91, in November. His aircraft was flying with ED908 on 20 July 1944. The 582 Sqn Operation Records Book states: “..at 1618 hrs our A/C was hit and bombs were involuntarily released. (Our A/C was immediately behind the Oboe Leader in the formation). Both A/C were hit by the same burst of flak. Leader burst into flames and continued on Bombing run, and bombed 18 secs (approx) after our release.”
It was an eye-witness account by his wireless operator which confirmed that the port wing of ED908 then folded upwards and broke off before any of the crew could bail out, and that the aircraft turned over on its back and fell to earth in what he calls a crazy downward gyration. Eye-witness reports from the ground say that it carried on past the target before turning, out of control, to head back in the opposite direction, coming to earth about half a mile away from the V-1 site.
Perhaps the passing of the last of the survivors of the attack?
BobKatMerlin 28
Noted, Peter. I have a diagram of the lubrication system of an early variant of the Merlin engine which suggests that ‘our’ pipe may be the for the low pressure oil supply, but it is not crystal clear. ED908 was flying with the Merlin 28. Maybe someone can confirm?
As far as I can tell, viewed from the rear, the fuel piping was on the left (port) side, and the oil piping (as pictured) was on the right (starboard) side.
BobKatMany thanks Peter. Am I right in assuming the picture shows the low pressure oil supply to the supercharger?
BobKatEngine piping
I think we may have solved item 16. I attach two pictures showing the engine piping with two fittings similar to ours circled. Looks possible?
I am told that item 15 does not have an AM mark, but it is marked FAT44.
BobKatPeter,
Great video link – many thanks for this and your explanation – the positioning of the hoist point fits with the rather gloomy picture of the bomb bay in photo 14.
I will have a look for pictures of Merlin engines and see if I can find a match with my photo 16.
As far as I can tell all the ammunition on board was .303in – we have no evidence of any .50in. The piece of ammunition ducting, in photos 26 and U, is double-tracked for the twin .303 calibre rear guns. So I am probably on the wrong track for item T1-6. Good to know that T4-24 does appear to be pneumatic – that helps to narrow the field a bit, and is consistent with the suggestion that it might be from the pitot tube arm.
I have had a look at the large scale photos I have of item 15, and cannot find any trace of an Air Ministry mark. I will enquire of our friends in France. I attach a close-up picture of the bottom half. As (hopefully!) you will be able to see, there is what appears to be some stitched fabric (leather?) sandwiched between the two layers of metal which has worked partly loose. I had thought this might be an anti-vibration feature, but perhaps not. A small corner of the lower plate seems to have broken off (where the date ‘MAR’ appears), but the rest, partly hidden by the fabric, is smooth-edged and appears to be shaped to fit into something.
BobKatWhere are we now?
It is now almost three weeks since this thread started, and it is time to pause for thought once more. It may be helpful to summarise what has been achieved so far, and also to note the outstanding questions, and (given the number of viewers that have been following this thread – now approaching 3,000 views) to seek to focus any further research on just a small number of items.
From the first batch in post #1, items 1 (the oxygen bottle basket supporting brackets) and 5 (the ground power socket) have been identified, but items 9 and 15 continue to defy all attempts at recognition. Some while ago someone suggested that the seven bolts on the face of the base of item 15 could have been to hold a perspex cover, with the end without a bolt in the centre being for the gap into which something could have been placed. Comparing it with the .303 ammunition in photo 15 (which is about 3 inches in length), the face would seem to have dimensions of no more than around 5 inches x 6 inches – probably too small for a mounting bracket for a piece of equipment as I had at one time thought, but might it be a card holder? Does this strike a chord with anyone?
I am trying to obtain another photo from France of item W5 showing in detail the Air Ministry mark on the mysterious radio/radar pieces in case this helps.
From the second batch (post #22), item B in W6 has been identified at an access panel locking pin and G has been confirmed as a bomb carrier crutch. H and I both have distinguishing characteristics with their split pins, but they have proved difficult to recognise. H does not quite fit the diagrams I have seen of the sides of sprocket boxes but there are some similarities.
From the third batch (post #30) we have the oxygen economiser inlet attachment (W10), but as yet no thoughts on the distinctive bluish piping on photo 16.
I am not surprised that items on the trestle table (post #35) have brought only a little response, but there are, in particular, two intriguing items where there are closer views in post #45: T1, item 6 and T4, item 24. I am sorry that the photos do not all give sufficient clarity of detail, but could T1-6 perhaps be connected with the ammunition ducting with the bars being runners? And does anyone recognise the two protruding tubes of T4-24 as being pressure piping joints rather than electrical connectors?
There are also a couple of questions left hanging in the air.
Does anybody know what ‘GF’ bombs (as distinct from ‘GP’ bombs were (post #29)? I cannot find any references. Does ‘F’ stand for ‘Fire’?
And, can anyone add a word of explanation, please, about the bomb hoist point (photo 14 in post # 42)? Have I understood the function of this piece correctly?
I will post any better pictures I receive from France but, subject to that, this will bring this phase of the identification project to an end. More may follow when work resumes next year! I will, however, post a few pictures of one or two of the more interesting items which we have found and identified.
My thanks again to all who have helped.
BobKatAccess panel locking pin
Our French friends have been following this thread with great interest and I have just received the attached photograph of our access panel locking pin which gives its dimensions and a bit more detail. Our communications are in my best schoolboy French from rather more than 50 years ago helped along with Google Translate French (as below)!
Thank you Laurent for sending the new photo. If you have any better photos of other pieces, please send them! Perhaps you would like to join the forum?
Merci Laurent pour l’envoi de la nouvelle photo. Si vous avez des photos de meilleures pièces d’autres, s’il vous plaît envoyez aussi! Peut-être que vous voulez participer au forum?
BobKatPeter, thanks for that. I think the two pins we have are about the same size, so perhaps we have both of them from the starboard side, even if the ‘wings’ do look a little different, and one with a piece of chain attached and one without? Probably not much more that can be said on this one.
I’ll post a few more pictures of identified items in due course.
BobKatAccess panel wing nut
Peter, just found the following in A.P.2062A:
“Nacelle fairings aft of fireproof bulkhead
4. To remove the four detachable panels aft of the fireproof bulkheads of the inboard and outboard nacelles, release the Dzus fasteners and remove the panels ….”
From what you say, there is only one wing-nut pin on the inboard access panel – and there isn’t one for the outboard?? If this is so, as the port wing was lost in the mid-air explosion, there would then only be one wing-nut pin to be found ….. if we now have a positive ID for this as item B on photo W6, we may be back to square one with item 4 on photo T1, and we are left with my idea that it could be the (fragmented) wing-nut from the flying controls locking gear – see diagram attached?? I guess this possibility will just have to remain uncertain.
BobKatLocking pin and chain
I wonder whether we have just solved item B in photo W6? It looks right.
BobKatPeter, a confusion of terminology – it seems what I was calling “lugs” are your “guides”!!!
I found the attached picture – I think your “lugs” must be on the left? Are these where the wing-nut was used?
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