I was a little hasty in dismissing the items found at location 113 as unidentifiable fragments presumably from the tail fin.
The Lancaster Manual describes the stringers along the fuselage as angle stringers and those in the main plane as top-hat. It illustrates them both. It does not describe the stringers in the wing tip or tail plane. 114B shows that the stringers in the wing tip are shaped in the same way as fuselage formers. Tucked away in an illustration for the tail plane construction is an enlarged detail showing the attachment of stringers. The detail shows a Z-shaped cross-section. The three types illustrated are shown in the picture below.
The pieces found at location 38, also from the tail fin, were mangled out of shape, but it is now apparent that some of these can be identified as tail fin stringers with fragments of the skin attached. Similarly, what I described as unidentifiable fragments at location 113 are in fact Z-shaped stringers from the tail fin. These are pictured below.
In 113A, the left-hand picture of a piece of the tail fin skin with a stringer attached is taken at an oblique angle with the stringer viewed from the side. In the centre the piece is pictured viewing the skin from above, and on the right the reverse side shows the riveted attachment of the stringer to the skin as seen from the inside of the fin.
In 113B, the oblique-angled left-hand view shows the ‘Z’ shape of two stringers. They both appear to have an intact 10-riveted reinforcing attachment. The centre picture viewed from the side shows the zig-zag pattern of the riveting along the length of the join. On the left-hand side of the two pieces in the right-hand picture can be seen the rivets originally attaching the skin of the fin. There are small traces of the skin under some of the rivets.
Can anyone please confirm whether the stringers, as designed, ran the length of the tail fin or if they were joined at some point, and therefore whether these reinforcements are likely to be for strengthening purposes or whether they may have been attached to a damaged part of the stringer?
The photo-gallery has been updated with extra pictures for locations 38 and 113.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Many thanks Hampden Project – much appreciated. Now that you have pointed me in the right direction I have found some photos and they show an exact match for our fragment. All we need now is a piece of the coloured lens to complete the picture!
Many thanks Peter. I had also thought that our piece 114B might have come from the wing fuel tank area, and was perhaps one of the tank bearers above the inboard fuel tank, but after looking closely at a number of diagrams and illustrations, I have concluded that it does not look quite right.
So, I turned my attention to the outer wing and wing tip, parts of which were found close by. I think what we may have is one of the stringers in the wing tip (marked in red in the diagram pictured below). These are not of the ‘top-hat’ variety, as in the outer wing, but are shaped more like a fuselage former with angled edges along their length. Pictures of the restoration of FM212 (with grateful acknowledgements) confirm this. AP2062A&C shows that both mushroom head and countersunk rivets were used for attachment of the top and bottom skin of the wing tip, and this is apparent from a close inspection of the rivet holes in Laurent’s photos.
We appear, therefore, to have a wing tip stringer with a fragment of the aircraft skin attached.
Laurent has confirmed that our piece 114C is made of bakelite and is therefore almost certainly electrical in origin, presumably related to the landing lights or the navigation and formation-keeping lamps on the wing tip, perhaps associated with a junction box? If anyone recognises it, I should be grateful to hear.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Right on cue, just after I had posted yesterday’s comments, Laurent produced some more finds.
The first pieces at location 113 were next to location 38 and are unidentifiable fragments presumably from the tail fin. This picture will be added to the photo-gallery. The second lot of pieces at location 114 were found next to location 57 where pieces of the outer wing and wing tip were found.
Item 114A is numbered 1SS 3190 and is the attachment bracket to the spar for rib No.17 of the outer wing (close to the outboard engine).
I have been unable to identify Item 114B. It has a piece of what seems likely to be the underside of the wing attached – Laurent says there are traces of black paint. I cannot see anything which matches on the diagrams I have. Could it be one of the intercostal connections between the ribs of the wing tip? A close look at the rivet holes along the join of the two pieces, best seen in the upper picture shows different sized holes along its length. Any ideas, anyone, please?
Item 114C shows ridges around its circumference and is a mystery. Does anyone recognise this as being something possibly connected to the wing’s electrics?
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
20 July is the 50th anniversary of the landing of Apollo 11 on the surface of the moon in 1969.
20 July is also the 75th anniversary of the loss of Lancaster ED908 and her crew in 1944. The scientific advances in the 25 years between the two dates are remarkable to contemplate.
There is, at present, no news of any more discoveries of wreckage in France over the last six months. It was back in June 2011 that Laurent first contacted me to say that he had found some pieces of wreckage from the aircraft on his land, and he has now been carrying out his searches in and around the forest for some 8 years, with each find adding a little more to our knowledge of the crash site. Given that the bulk of the remains of the aircraft were removed from the site in the 1950s, it is amazing how much has been revealed by the fragments left behind.
Laurent’s perseverance has been quite magnificent, no doubt driven by his first message to me in 2011; “The crash was 50 metres from my house. Since 2004 I have been looking for answers to my research. I managed to find the names of the crew of the Lancaster on the internet. It is important to me, to give life to the men who gave their lives for us, the French. I am 34 years old, while they were younger! I want to give them a new life so that they are not forgotten!”. The memorial, funded jointly by the relatives of the crew and the local community, which was unveiled five years ago in the churchyard at Freulleville where the crew were originally buried has ensured that they will be remembered.
My thanks, and those of the relatives of the crew, to Laurent, his friend Claude and others who have helped him for their efforts over the last 15 years, and also to Hervé who has chronicled the wartime history of the locality and to those who have shared their wartime recollections of the attack on the V1 site. Astoundingly, this topic has generated over 193,000 views to date – we are all extremely grateful to Peter and the members of this forum who have assisted in identifying so much of what Laurent has found.
Today is a day for reflection on the events of 75 years ago.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
At 2320 hrs on 5 June 1944 Jim Foulsham of 109 Sqn and his navigator John Swarbrick took off from Little Staughton airfield in Mosquito ML932. Their task was to mark the gun battery at Merville, overlooking Sword Beach. They started their run at 0011 hrs and dropped their target marking flares from 22,000 feet at 0025 hrs by A.R.5513 (Oboe). The Squadron Operations Record Book says that there was 10/10 cloud with tops at 10,000 feet. These were the first target indicators to fall on French soil after midnight on D-Day, 6 June 1944, exactly 75 years ago.
On 20 July 1944 they lost their lives, shot down when flying Oboe-Lancaster ED908 on its bombing run.
We will remember them.
Photo-gallery:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Index to parts found and annotated illustrations:
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resi…t=folder%2cjpg
Peter, are you referring to Laurent’s handwritten transcription of what he was able to read in the picture attached to post #1232? If so, the bottom line ‘SP??TOR’ can now be seen from Hennie’s almost identical plate to read fully as ‘INSPECTOR’.
The Lancaster Parts Lists I have seem to deal with the fuselage of the aircraft behind the engine fireproof bulkhead, and so do not include the cowling. The Merlin Parts Lists deal with the engine itself, not the cowling, although one did include pictures of the cowling panels and this is what is shown in the picture in post #1232. I assume you don’t have any further information about the individual part numbers?
On another thread on the Forum, Hennie and I have been looking at a piece of wreckage which has been identified as a Merlin engine top cowling panel. This had a Part No plate attached which also showed the serial number. A picture is attached. The plate is identical in format with one found with engine pieces from ED908 at location 40. The part number for the top panel is 1D/09114. The one from ED908 is badly damaged, but appears to read ?D/08116. This would therefore appear to be from another part of the cowling. I have found a diagram (attached) showing the various cowling panels, but I can’t find anything showing the different part numbers. Does anyone know what these are, or is anyone able to direct me to a source where they might be listed, please?
Hennie, the attached diagram confirms the cowling piece. It would be good to find something which confirms the part numbers, then I could determine which piece the part number plate of ED908 belongs to.
Hennie, I agree that the big piece you have appears to be the upper cowling from one of the engines – the brown paint would certainly indicate this. I did not know that the pieces making up the cowling and nacelles had separate part number/serial number plates. The part number plate we have from ED908 must therefore be from one of the other component parts of the cowling or nacelles. This would be consistent with where it was found next to other engine pieces. It would be interesting to hear if anyone has a record of, or knows of a source recording, what these part numbers are.
Hennie, could you please provide a photo of the complete reverse side of the piece. We have a virtually identical piece (the serial number plate only) from ED908 which was found with several other engine pieces, but I am not convinced it is from the cowling. It seems to relate to a separate piece of equipment – possibly the oil cooler.
No nothing showing for me either.
Hello Hennie. Some interesting stories – we have a similar story about the use of the parachute silk. I can’t see the part number in my Merlin parts list. All parts were numbered with 6 digits beginning with ‘6’, but if this is the cowling it would be numbered differently. Any chance of a picture showing the number?
Sorry Hennie – I can’t help with the others.
Hennie, to put the matter beyond doubt, I attach a diagram from the Lancaster Mk.X Parts List. Your piece is numbered E1040 (as in your photo) and is described as the inboard panel on the port outboard engine. The starboard nacelle is not illustrated. Everything seems to match! Maybe somebody else can explain the other numbers?