George JErrr one “smoking engine” from one blogger who couldnt speak “hindi” to an IAF flight tech is your great proof of “grounding” and “cannibalizing” now???? Great Todo. Also the Su-30K is no longer a testing bed…there were 100’s of changes suggested by the No.24 that have been serially incorporated into the Mk.1 MKI (which is where the whole problem of floggin the K and whats “warrentied” whats not comes up).
I dont think my car sux or needs to be grounded or cannibalized just coz there was a general safety recall on 2/3 parts that DID NOT FAIL on my specific car.
Finally Todo??? Like I reminded you before..you aint in Kanwa Kansas anymore. I tell you its a shame that my attempt at humor just bounces off your ukeranian supplied mongolian maintained drone skin. :diablo:
George JTodo:
Your OWN post from Indian newspaper had the REASON why you we didnt see any Su-30K fatalities. Like I said before PLEASE READ whats written (off course thats on page 4 and I am pretty sure drones like you donno how to count and then I will have to copy paste WHY there are no fatalities and WHY it was a very unique problem and not a batch failure).
Dude I ve been through 3 recalls and my model year didnt even suffer from the more dangerous coil pack problem so I guess I donno what you are talking about in terms of “recall”…all I know is what I ve been through. Once again its personal experience against a drones brouchure babble.
This is the problem with todo’s like you. You talk about car recalls and I tell you my story about recall and then your packee translator screws up and your ukeranian nanny does not change your diaper and you start confusing “premature -31F failure” (what was that part that you love to highly in bold?) as “waiting for engines to break” (for the record I was waiting for my window regulator to break so that I can get BOTH fixed…not that you will be reading this anway)
Oh and about your latest allegations (or delusional ramblings) WHERE does it say ANYTHING about Su-30K/MKI? Are the flankers the only planes that India operates???? Oh I am sorry ….. you FORGOT to read again….you have this knee jerk reaction about posting. Hence I stand by my earlier assertion about you……..
Shoooo……………
George JDidn’t the Su-30K’s change their paint jobs to the same ones as the MKIs?……..
Since we know you cant read….perhaps a picture will help you. From Cope India 2006 (Nov 2005), the most recent -30K pics that I know off.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/CopeIndia/Cope06-VS-13.jpg
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/CopeIndia/Cope06-VS-33.jpg
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George JSeems to me you can’t stick to the argument without resorting to personal insults. I asked you many times to provide straight evidence of your sparing factor…you provide none……….
After all, you are the one who said it isn’t defective until it is actually broken.
……..Well it’s the same who thinks you can preempt engine problems with visual inspection only, never mind how long and how tedious it would take to strip down an engine completely, then comb the parts for tiny cracks.
Do you ever had a car recall? …………. Comprende Ingles, eh?
OH Todo…let it go…your face has been blackened like cheap soy sauce with a hint of stinking oyester (you dont need your Pakee to explain this to you too). There are no personal insults its just witty repartee…the only one who is resorting to crass stuff is YOU kiddo. But given your age, lack of comprehension of english (see bolded part and please go through 12 pages of repetition and point to where I said its visual inspection that ID defective -31F….I only stated that perhaps the ukeranians/mongolians can smell a defective engine for PLAAF…didnt really tell you how they were found out for IAF..there is a hint in there)
Oh bubba I have had three recalls on my VW (very good point though), NONE of the parts actually failed on my car (actually 2 did’nt…I was “waiting” for 1 to fail..long story your pakee wounld’nt understand it) yet since it was called a “safety recall” they replaced the faulty parts even though it had’nt failed on my car specfically but had failed in a “significant portion” of the batch. So if you ask me, off the three recalls only 1 really had any merit on my car and even that one recall was eagerly awaited (mine was pretty much the last of that model year to go) coz if one failed I could get the BOTH replaced when I went in (dont worry if you dont understand this…it has to do with class action lawsuits and VW guidelines of replacing faulty parts).
This would be a great segway into the -31F failures….but unfortunately over 12 pages your lack of comprehension and your crass retorts (kinda reflective of your drone kith I guess) leads me to think that after space shuttles you might want to dwell on the failure time of I donno…noodle makers??
George JROFL. The problem with your ass thinking is that when you have an exceptionally high rate of premature failures, that’s a guarantee that most of the engines produced in the same batch are inherently defective and are trouble just waiting to happen……….Show me more of your technical incompetence, later bozo.
I dont find you funny anymore drone…you are getting too crass for my taste but then you are the token “equal equal” mod so I guess Oracle’s AFM will turn a blind eye to this (but might notice your whining about my “racial slurring”)…your pontification about “both countries” have been sunk hook line and sinker…now you want to go off on a Space Shuttle tangent. Seems like you are getting a bit hot under the collar.
So shoo…..
George JThe way I ve understood it…there is nothing being considered beyond Barak 2, which itself is well into its development (like I said before its been in the works for a long time, dont go by published reports). I really doubt that the IN will scale back on the new Barak and look for a longer range SAM, if you heard otherwise I guess only time will tell who is right….but given that ppl who do this kinda stuff for a living have been emphatic about Barak being the next gen IN SAM (and no they are pretty sure Aster 30 does not meet their future needs) I really doubt if we will see another SAM.
Wheather the drones believe it or not IN found the S-300 to be not very good value for the money in the long term and so it decided to go with the Barak. Remember there is a lot of work that been done in Air Defence even in India even if you dont like the Akash there are a lot of systems that are in place for which no shiny brouchures exist. The new Barak fits in nicely with those plans.
At the risk of sounding very pompous in about 1-2 decades with the Brahmos Family, Barak Family, Akula family, P 75A,B,I family and its own constellation of “various” satellites family the IN will be one big happy family in the IOR. The riff raff can enjoy their Rif and other ding dongs.
George JGiven what you say, these people can do a far better job than you. …………. They would consider the entire production batch defective, ground them and began inspecting them (not with just eyes alone)…
And the Space Shuttle Challenger isn’t defective till it blows up. Eh?
Let me repeat your sheer technical incompetence.If a product in a specified batch showed problems, then the entire production batch is called into question…………..
Thats perhaps some of the dumbest argument I have seen since Oracle’s Twu BVR. You are now comparing the premature failure (hence defect under warrenty) of an AL-31F to the failure of an “O-Ring” or the breaking off on a Foam piece on a space shuttle??? That too without really point the similarities and just point the outcome??
If you had posted this king of crap before the Oracle had (or come out of the stupid closet before he/she/it had…we would have name the forum after you).
Your “droni-ness” knows no bounds.
Blackcat:
I know we dont see eye to eye on most issue on BRF but you have inadvertantly stumbled on some important aspects of the AL-31FP program :diablo: and I must say you are kind of right (but dont this goto your head 😀 )
This whole thread is kinda one sided Indians present the fact to these drones coz all we get from them is not real info but brouchure babble, incorrect Indian media (OMG how could that have happened?) and kanwa krap. No drone has really ever gone within a 100 miles of a real PLAAF asset or resource. This whole discussion hinges around the undisputable fact that I actually saw the SU-30K fly and the MKI fly with a few weeks of the so called “nicks” which was brought down to the same level of the PLAAF grounding/cannibalization.
Austin:
I am pretty sure that there is nothing being considered beyong the Barak 2. Just coz we came to know about it last week does not mean that the IN had an epiphany about it a few days ago. Its been the works for a long long time….even before the first Barak joined the service and it was pretty much firmed up after IN gained experience with the Shtil (and evaluated “other” russian systems).
Its a very ambitious project and you know that the Navy will make sure it works coz its THEY who decided that this is what they want. And as you see with Brahmos there was only the IN, then the IA and soon the IAF variant. Unless the S-400 news is true and its truly that and more…I predict that the Indo-Israeli Barak will become the defacto “SAM family” of India. :diablo:
Standardization is the mantra.
George Jeeeh I wouldnt hv entered into this fray if the chief chinese drone did not want have an axe to grind about his grounded flankers and did not decide to drag IAF down to the level of the PLAAF when he so CONFIDENTLY and ELOQUENTLY spoke about flankers being grounded and canniablized in BOTH countries and that Indians pilot dont touch 300 on their flankers.
So yeah you are indeed right I was dragged to Cronato’s brouchure babbling level…and oh dear me it is I who uses “racial slurs” but its he/she/it that cant seem to read whats been explicitly stated.
And what are you doing? Adding fuel to the fire….nice. Asst. drone to the rescue?
Stealth:
Crobato is a moderator of “equal-equal” convenience. He has always had an axe to grind about Indian mil aviation in order to prove the primacy of his grounded/cannibalized reverse engineered riff raff (I remember fondly him arguing like a blithering idiot about the LTOW of the MKK being 38T and that MKI is ONLY 34.4T).
This is after all oracle’s AFM. The very fact that the forum is run by oracleites tells you what to expect from some of its “equal equal” moderators/luminaries. But what can you do, if the Oracle is allowed to run free with its scintillating saying…most of AFM is pretty much doomed to its level.
George JI thought these would be bought back from IAF (2-3 year old story) and the price will be adjusted against the delievery of the last of the first MKI which will be Mk.3. Russians are free to do what they want with the Su-30K.
The problem has been that we have not been able to come up with a respectable depreciated value for a Su-30K.
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George JVikraal:
The only problem with debating someone who suddenly pretends not to understand english is that after a while you start going around in circles and then it gets boring. There are only so many “racial slurs” that I can come up with and its a sheer waste of my american pop culture based sarcasm/poor attempt at humor to address my “racial slurs” to these guys.
Maybe I should stick to stuff they use like us one me like “Stupid” and “Idiot” and other childish invectives. The drones will never admit they are wrong (they cant coz if they do then they are not drones), heck they dont even know what AWST is, its all BR’s #. If its not printed on their shiny brochures its all rumours. I am sorry I dont have a shiny brouchure which says that Su-30K were ever grounded but I did see them fly about 21 days after the last reported nicks and grounding and was brush off when I started talking about the “groundings” by being edumacated about sparing factors and warrenties. I tell you the IAF are great illusionist maybe they can teach the Ukeranians how to do the same tricks and they might help out the Chinese when their photochops fail.
But this thread is boring now, I might as well start copy pasting my own replies for the predictable retorts these drones are going to come up with.
George Jthe FP again is believed ( from unconfirmed sources over the net) to be still giving less( aroud 700)..engine technology improves.. improvements(like improving the MTBO).. will not be named as a different engine..
I donno what are you trying to say or why are you are trying to needle into a discussion that has nothign to do with MTBO of the currently-imported-soon-to-be-mfg AL-31FP engine. This is about sparing factors maintained by the IAF for their ALWAYS IMPORTED SERVICE IN INDIA WARRENTIED IN INDIA Al-31F engines which enabled it to maintain its operational tempo. Unless you have something concrete please dont spin this into another “unconfirmed sources” discussion. We have enough and more Chinese already doing that.
The figure 6.57 doesnt represent the real scenario at all…..
please read what i wrote more carefully.. lemme repeat it for u in a a=>b=>c fashion.. (since you cant interpret sentences..
indians faced the mig29 scenario..
=> a good possibility they would have kept more spares for su30’s.
=> less chances for grounding..
and ” i m not in a position to comment on china in this regard”
does that make it clear..
Err so whats the point you are trying to make besides pandering for a Chinese citizenship??? You dont want to believe 6.57 thats your problem you can join your chinese bretheren and goto town on whatever WAP forum that you so love to extoll about. The point is the sparing factor for the -31F is in the same “ball park” of the 6.57 that being currently maintained by the IAF for MKI. Thats why even with premature failure of some spare engines the operational tempo was maintained. The issue is what happend to the engines that failed and WHY did they fail.
THese a/c dont all need spares in unison, they are flown at a different rate, they have maitainance issues at a different rate so you need only a specific # of spare engines lying around at any given time. The spares have a warrenty on shelf life (not sure coz I didnt ask) and DEFINATE warrenty on the airframe (which was the CORE ISSUE about the premature failure).
Finally even the Chienese donno about the Chinese engines coz there are no brouchures about it. No brouchures not info. Has it occured to you that all these terracotta soldiers have not produced their OWN sparing factor in 10 pages of discusison? Yet take pot shots on the Indian one coz they can.
Chinawhite:
Dude you really have to be high on fentanyl derivatives to think the IAF has to “brought up” to the level of the PLAAF. This whole discussing of about “dragging the IAF down” to the level of PLAAF.
PS: You do know what “China white” is right? If not please do google for it and hope to Mao that the Chinese have not censored all search for that.
George J
“The engines are not defective till they FAIL prematurely.”What kind of a stupid idiot would say that?
Errr Todo. You have at any given time xx spare -31F lying around at Lohegaon. How do you determine which of these are defective?
1) Hire a chinese to smell them for defects?
2) Hire a ukeranians to smell them for defects?
3) Hire a monogolian coz the Chinese and Ukeranian have a cold?
Upon visual inspection these spares look fine and dandy. Upon installation they work fine and dany..and perform within operational parameters. Upon initial flight with new engines the a/c is fine and dandy. Then after say 200 hours the newly installed engine goes kaput. Now what? (please re-read Pages 4-10 or co-read it with a native english speaker for better comprehension)
Hence the engines are NOT defective till they fail prematurely. Got it Todo?
The engines are inherently defective and that is why they fail prematurely. No wonder you can’t get your engineering projects off the ground. If that is your attitude and procedures with regards to defects.
Todo, you sure are not in Kansas anymore. I agree with you there were inherent defects but these were not consistenly found on all spare engines and thats why some fail and other do not. I thought i had explained this somewhere on Page 6. Oh well I am sure if you re-read it you will finally get it.
Oh puhleeze. I have shown you that you cannot use a long standing license of engines as proof of your sparing factor.
Wow…at least now you acknowledge that India is gonna get 920 deep licensed engines. Till Page 8 you didnt even know what AWST was. Now thats progress for someone from Kanwa Kansas. WHy on earth would they have a high sparing factor for Indian MKI and not import a similar # to maintain their current operational tempo on the IAPO K and MKI. Unless you are insinuating that like the Chinese (and their SK) the Indians wont be able to put together a decent MKI or a -31FP. Thats a bit far fetched coming from ppl who cannot even maintain what they ve imported.
Yeah right. So you replaced them with engines around 2003-2004, engines that are not obviously certified since the certification only came in 2005. Man, you’re just full of self contradicitons and lies.
Hey its not my fault that I have been harping since page 5 that there are no open source info on the -31F sparing factor but its on the ballpark of the MKI. Off course its lies and contradiction when you can barely read english and seem to bring up the same point again and again. What else would make you feel happier than your own delusions, Todo?
By the way, you just said this.
“The engines are not defective till they FAIL prematurely.”Hoo hoo hooo.
There….dont just feel all perky now? Repeating in bold something that you really didnt care to understand in the first place. Are we having fun in our special ed class yet?
Lol. The IAF is not even in the level as the PLAAF. At least they get their engineer projects done because they don’t make false assumptions like you such as
“The engines are not defective till they FAIL prematurely.”
Whoops there goes Todo…quoting something he does not understand..AGAIN. What engineering project (a.k.a Tangents, since you really cant hold your ground on this thread anymore) are you talking about? IAF does not have to hire mongolians and ukeranians to fix their -31F. All their projects are handled by russians. What next? You will start using Pakistanis to repair your planes???
You know what is the Barak? It is a point defense missile. You know, like really really short range. 5km to 10km tops? You know what is the Shtil? Something like 50km tops? The S-300 is a long range whooper of a missle that can cover 150km to 200km.
See now you are not reading and comprehending TWO concurrently discussed issues. First you dont understand (or pretend not to understand) anything about the -31F and sparing factors. Now you seem to elegently forget that we are NOT talking about Barak…its about Barak 2 (its not gonna be called 2/LR, it has a different name but Barak 2 will certainly avoid some confusion till its official name comes out). When did I ever argue with you that Barak 1 is not point defence and a damn good one at that.
What have I tried to make you think about? I know thinking is not something drones do, but then one can always try to reforms borgs (I wonder if my incisive humor is falling on deaf ears with these pakistani assisted english translations that you seem to be responding to). Oh well back to thinking: why would the ultrapragmatic IN which has experienced with the Barak and Shtil opt for $350 m codevelopment over buying the riff raff that you seem to goto town about. Unless you argue that it was only offered to the Chinese and not the Indians coz they got more money (err things like Chakra/Akula-2 etc come to mind…but dont bother be happy with your riff raff.)
Let us repeat that you have never proven that point. You think that shouting, circular reasoning and shouting racial invective would prove that point? Maybe in BR. Not in AFM.
Dude this is the first time I had a forum mod give me invectives (big word from a chinese who does not seem to comprehend anything else) coz he/she/it does not comprehend whats been talked about yet seem to be an expert on “both countries”. That tells me the stds of Oracle’s AFM. I dont think there was/is anything racial. Its all facts: you need ukeranians and mongolians to maintain your planes Off course my resoning will be circular…you really expect your translator to understand half the points I make? NOpe…thats why you should try your best to read and understand these points yourself. That would be very linear. Wot Todo?
In fact, you sound quite uneducated with your racial blurbs. As for an axe to grind, guess who is making the racial blurbs here.
But we certainly do understand what you mean by:
“The engines are not defective till they FAIL prematurely.”
What racial blurb todo? I aint saying nothing or paying back to you after you started with all the name calling. Oh wait is this your way of a face saving way of ending this discussion? You know you dont have anything else to say. You know your observations are as valid a SinoDef Photochop, so you want to turn this into a racial discusison so that the mods will shut this down. Pretty clever todo, but I aint biting. You can continue your insecurity driven invectives.
George JWhy do they have such a sparing factor knowing that the engines are defective huh? Nicks by the way, for whatever reason the cause, they’re are not caused by wear and tear.
Oh you are back round and about to this point? Umm lets see what was the story you spun on page 7? Aaaah yes…its coz of FOD? This time you say its wear and tear??? You are right? But the wear and tear still does not justify premature failure. AND YET the high sparing factor maintains operational tempo while others get grounded and cannibalized and liketo bring IAF down to their level. Now where did I hear that before??
Keeping defective engines as spares does not change the picture. Changing a defective engine for another defective engine does not make things right.
Aaah you see we talked bout this on Page 7 and 8, perhaps you did not read it there like some other have pointed observed about drones like you. The engines are not defective till they FAIL prematurely. LIke I said before (like you read it then) you donno by smelling an engine if it will fail, like a bad plate of kung pao. (thats new)
Just because HAL licensed 920 engines does not mean that is your sparing factor. Not by a long shot. Let’s assume you’re producing the engines for ten years, you got 92 engines per year, and 28 of those go to new build. You also have to assume you are wearing out the engines at a rate of one engine set, two engines, per 3 years.
Didnt we talk about this too?? On page 6. The sparing factor of Su-30K is in the ball part of the 7 that is for the 138 yet to be made MKI and the 34 MKI that still get their engines from UMPO. The rest of your math is pure shanghai statistics, which happens a lot if you dont read whats been posted.
Those engines have to be built across a length of time. Are you assuming that the 920 engines can be built in one year, and are all with you simultaneously huh? You also keep forgeting that the quantities specified are also going into new aircraft, and in that length of time, you are also wearing out older engines while building new ones.
Yaawnnnnnnnn…too lazy to type, besides I smell a useless verbiage…please read above answer. Oh you replace OLD engines with new ones that are NOT supposed to fail prematurely. I thougth I said that before. Jeee
Get some education will you?
If by that you mean NOT being able to comprehend whats already been stated before and just beating a death horse just so that you dont have to cry at night weeping over soggy boruchures…then no thanks.
Lol. Your MiG-29K is not delivered yet. But at least it is ordered.
DUH!!! I didnt start this topic…i did observe it was purely hypotheical and hence specifically mentioned updated AAD in future IN ships. You are the one with the bright idea to drag the IAF to the level of PLAAF since you had nothing worthwile to contribute. And what was that about ME getting an education?? :diablo:
The S-300RIF is already bought, received and has been installed on two 051C class destroyers—PAST TENSE. It’s really funny how you like to compare theoriticals with something operational. China also has Shtils too. Does not change anything. But China knows it ain’t enough which is why they are going S-300RIF and HHQ-9, which is like a hybrid of S-300 and Patriot. Now that is true fleet area defense.
Again you did not read what was posted above. When did I NOT say that you have the Shtils. I just said that IN knows what Shtils can do…what S-300 can do and decided to stay away from both and go with what Barak can do. Unless you contend that Chinese get the better tech than India…coz that would only open another cannot of whooping for you.
MKK (real) vs. Barak 2 (still imaginary).
= MKK wins by default.
Sure the MKK wins by default it has to do nothing. Coz the Barak 2 will take a few years to online and it will take all that time for the mongolians and ukeranians to get the spares together…cannibals some planes and get the grounded MKK back into the air…while the ace PLAAF flanker pilots fly J-8’s to clock up hours. Right.
Rumor, rumor, it is all rumor. Numbers are made up or beautify to satisfy your pride (delusional level). It is just an example of pluging your ancient beautiful myth story into this modern day.
Just answer all my questions, and provide me the source.
Don’t just circling around, calling others as drones, using racial slur and low level jokes, attacking on other’s English level. It wouldn’t prove any of your points. It only makes your-self look ridiculous.
I didnt make up 920…i gave you a source…now if you want to see Lyulka Log books like I am sure you have seen and smelt KNAAPO long books or Salyults long books and know more than what your shiny brouchures tell you coz that as close to an a/c as you will ever get then what can I do? Who is the delusional one here? You are the one who didnt have the patients to follow up to Page2 of your google search to see the exact source: AWST 2001 for the # and you call me delusional?? Right.
I think I have proved my point over and over. The Su-30K’s were never grounded coz yours truly has been there done that and coz their spares and maintainance is what you expect from a professional airforce that been bitten badly once before. Just coz you dont want to believe it does not mean its not ture. After all you come from a country where google searches are now going to be controlled. What else can I expect from your thought process. Similar monotonicity? Well thats what drones do.
About you guys not understanding english? Please see how many times I have to repeat myself to make sure you drones understand a single point and keep you on track. This is not a discussion, this is you guys having an axe to grind…and being delusional enough not to look up simple reference to information to the contrary.
As far as the name calling goes. Well the honourable adminstrator/chief drone is the one who started resorting to name calling somewhere along Page4 after he/she/it figured that it really cannot defend this cannibal/grounding argument or bring down the IAF to the level of PLAAF. It aint my fault. I just pay back with interest. Kinda makes you think what kind of an admin does one make if you starte making grandois arguments and then resort to name calling once you start seeing your sand castle being systematically washed out. But then I remember this is Oracle’s AFM. :dev2:
George JThe main question remains is one George refuses to answer. Where is his 920 engines in the 2003-2005 period? Where is the 920 engines now to be used as a sparring factor? The 32 IAIA MKI and the 18 Su-30K expected to be converted to MKI did came in with UMPO made engines, but does that imply that that you will continue to use engines from UMPO after HAL starts making the engines?
I dont think I EVER said that they have 920 engines in 2004-5. I DID say they (Su-30K) have a sparing factor similar to the MKI coz they have UMPO made engines (that includes the ones made by UMPO…DUDE why would we hold Ufa responsible, if THEY didnt make the engines that failed prematurely?? ) Do you really practice to be this idotic??? HAL is still far from making the -31FP but that DOES NOT mean that they dont maintain a sparing factor of 7 today using UMPO engines (hence the warrenty issue).
Lol a Barak 2 is a medium range missile that is still in development and discussion—in short vaporware. An MKK with Kh-31Ps (110km range) Do you really want to compare that against the aerial defense of the PLAN with S-300 RIF (currently under construction) and HHQ-9s guided by phase arrays (in service), with ranges lilke 120km?
MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO READ THE POST before fabricating a knee-jerk reply. As of now Mig-29K is equally vapouware like your S-300 RIF. Besides if the RIF was the cats meow why would the ultrapragmatic IN riff raff it in favour of the Barak 2??? You operate the current Shtils as the IN and the IN thinks its not good enough for future conflicts (the same that we are talking about where the Mig-29K will play any part against the riff raff MKK) Eh? Point to ponder (errr. that means think before replying amigo)
I would’nt like to speculate the final specs of the Barak 2 (I would rather sniff that brouchure and then talk to the ppl who really matter , wait for you to say something stupid about it and THEN comment about it). Hey you wanna goto town with a 80’s Naval SAM be my guest.
George JSean:
The MKI is “new” to the IAF, and despite of what Oraclites think Mk.3 is a different beast from Mk.1 which itself is a different beast from Su-30K which off course are “cannibalized/grounded”. Given that IAF is facing a real tough time recruiting pilots, it is far more cost-effective to let the flankers pilots continue to fly, and learn on the flanker itself.
What got lost in that whole “cannibal” discussion is that from a Russian POV they did have point about not wanting to honour their warrenties on premature failure (on some of the failures, not all of them..some were just good old vodka tech). The IAF really flogged the flankers and they did so coz they really really had their work cut out for them. You really think the Russian “trained” the Indians to fly the flankers? Nope, they just showed them how to barely handle the planes. The Indians are pretty much self taught on how to “use” the Su-30K and by default how to “use/employ” the MKI.
The Su-30K were badly flogged in the learning process but they confidently flogged them coz they had enough and more spares/support for them. If the russians had gone home after the -30K, maybe IAF could’nt have gotten away with the “premature failures” they were right there barely 200 m away in their little Russia, coz the MKI’s had just come online.
SO in conclusion, all flanker drivers pretty much only flew the flankers coz they formed the core of the MKI sqd, now the MKI’s get newbies but till a few years ago, Su-30K were thier OFTU, which means the compartment 1 guy is logging a LOT OF HOURS. Now the MKI boys do regular 9.5 hour long duration sorties.
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