LOL I love the way Pranab da’s reply to a really stupid question has been twisted. And the good folks at Defence Talk even think its news worthy? Thats even more amazing.

1st launch vertical June 2001
2nd launch angular April 2002

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grape ape
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Dodge Intrepid Esx History

I don’t think you get the point ……….FYI the OVT does not have a Bars on it. And the Bars can be installed on non TVC aircraft. The development of the two is not connected. But you would already know that……..:D

I would be surpised if someone came back from MAKS and told me that OVT has anything but lead weights in the nose. If its (OVT) already testing a radar…then it would be nice to know what its flying with.

About the BARS….if I read Fomin correctly there was some oblique reference to the now dead Su-37 (Bort 711 of the Su-35) testing the “phased array radar” and didnt the Su-37 have some semblence of TVC on it? If you have better information about the Bars testing phase (especially which variant was used to test it) that would certain add to this discussion….if not….like I said…we just have to wait for an OVT to fly a Bar-29 (they can always fly it even without an Indian contract…nothing is stopping them).

…….Just George Js comment that a Mig29MKI or whatever would be a completely different aircraft to the S.

I know that better than anyone around here….but I kinda find it ironic that a few months ago many a luminary on AFM were browbeating me about how an Su-30K (or an MKK) can simply be upgraded to a full spec MKI (till the news finally came out about India returning the K’s for 18 more MKI) and today you are trying to remind me that Mig-29MKI will be a totally different beast. :dev2:

If the IAF goes for the -29MKI then the older -29S are pretty much gonna stay the same…

Umm the LCA is/will be a multirole replacement for the Mig-21…not for MKI…so when you say “not upto wester fighters” you need to further qualify your inference. Not upto Grippen? EF2000? Rafale? F-16 D? etc?

IMO our defence establishments must open their eyes to the benefits of reverse engineering…like doing it to the Mirages and Mig-29’s we alredy have and putting in our advanced aveonics into it…thus saving us several billions of dollars of foreign exchange.

Every policy has its repercussions. THe Chinese tried reverse engineering (RE) and it worked pretty darn well…made lots of mediocre copies that made the #, sold these to 3rd countries as their own etc. India set up lic mfg. and did not reverse engineer anything untill the collapse of the Soviet Union.

After that both India and China needed new hardware and they got it the form of the Su-27/30. China has 300 odd that were lic mfg with no deep license while India has 32 + 2 which are being made under a deep license. The chinese made zillion planes…sold a zillion planes but their own turbfan development seems to be moving slower than expected (we have rabble roused enough on this forum about it)….so they STILL need to BUY engines for their own domestic planes AL-31FN and RD-93. While the jury is still out there about reselling either of these. India get deep license for the AL-31FP.

While RE route has given the Chinese amazing quantities of medicre copies….the Indians have bumbled along with their development of ‘world class….cheapest…lightest…jingoest’ electronics via their LCA program. So while they develop and integrate the best tech they can get their hands on in efforts to upgrade their current fleet and future acquisition, it remains to be seen how the Chinese develop their own skills in avionics and aircraft development.

Please note….if you have been around for a long time you will know that India HAS reverse engineered stuff that were custom critical and whose supply from Russia was either irratic or downright stupidly expensive at best. The good folks of BRD 11 (in conjuction with DRDO/HAL) have dont wonders with Mig-29 components.

In hindsight the option not to RE seems to have paid off with all the Co-development and deep licenses that India has right now. Resisting the urge to RE allowed for painfully slow aeronautical/avionics development which has shows some pretty good results thus far and hopefully continue. Think about it…..by the time the LCA goes to IOC….most of its avionics would have been TRIED and TESTED on other IAF platforms: MKI, Jag and Mig-27.

Hmm Barak-II eh? Why do I get a feeling that there will be so such SAM. Oh dont get me wrong…there will be a SAM but it just wont be called Barak-II :dev2:
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Yamaha Phazer
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HERBAL VAPORIZERS

Now where did that popcorn go? THis is gonna be fun….another useless thread where no one is gonna learn anything….another scintillating battle of egos.