George JYes it can. The Su-30MKI (one of which crashed in Paris) demonstrators were converted from normal FLANKERs.
Umm well then we’ll just have to wait and see if the IAF sends in the 18 Ks to be ‘upgraded’ to the MKI, wont we? 😀 I for one wont be holding my breath. :diablo:
________
Mercury (automobile) history
________
Buy vapormatic
George JSU-30K has an inferior engine campared to that of the MKI…One mejor problem faced by SU-30K is that the russian electronics in it could not able to withstand indian HEAT………………Between these two there may be little bit difference externlly, but internally its a super hi-breed of the SU-30 K. its EW, Guidance system, Mission Control, DATA linking and FLY by WIRE suit are all hibrid (not russian origin)..
Eh???? inferior engine? What are your sources? I dont think the No.24 boys would like that one bit…MKI owes its existence to the Su-30K. The two reported problems with the engines on the Su-30K were 1) fuel additive incompatablity (really old teething trouble story) 2) nicks on the turbine blade from FOD (around late 2003). The IAF grounded the Su-30K till the OEM came by and ‘fixed’ the problem. I dont think it was such a big deal since there is a very high sparing factor built into the program.
Finally there is a fundamental difference between the K and MKI (we on AFM have spent countless hours on discussing the differences) they are not hybreds/slightly different/super hi breed or whatever adjectives are used to describe them. To put it very simply the Su-30K CANNOT be upgraded to MKI std, MKI has to be built from the ground up.
________
Mercury Sable history
________
VAPORIZER SHOP
George JThe oracle is right MKM is a derivative of the MKI platform. But the last I checked they havent been delievered yet (Contract signed in 08/2003 and arent they supposed to be delivered in 08/2005 ?) Also I dont think the RMAF pilots have flown in the IAF MKI or Su-30K (which on second though does sound quite intriguing, considering that they are getting the MKM). Hmm no test drive before buying? Anyone know of Malaysian delegations visiting Lohegaon before 08/2003?
But the “certain types” of Su-27 fighters are specifically MKI/MKM or something with that structural calibre…not a plain jane Su-27.
________
no2 vaporizer
________
BMW GS HISTORY
George JI dont get it….Barailley is the home of the No.24…they are the Su-30K not the MKI. So what exactly did the Thai pilots fly an MKI or K, big difference ya know. And I highly doubt if they to fly in an MKI as a quid pro quo for letting IAF jocks fly an F-16. AFAIK no foreign pilot has flown an IAF MKI (russians dont count), I have heard of folks being allowed to sit in the cockpit of an MKI but never seen pics of the same, only USAF boys in the cockpit of a Su-30K.
________
Ferrari F2005 specifications
________
Tigerblood
George JBut Su 30 can carry three so why can’t su-27 carry the same amount.
Because the what you call the Su-30 (note 3 brahmos is specific to the MKI) is not the same as a plain jane Su-27. We have been over this several times MKI is not the same thing as an Su-27/Su-30K/Su-30MKK/MK2/or whatever you wanna compare it to.
________
Ford Verona history
________
LOS ANGELES DISPENSARIES
George JA few years back when severe storms hit eastern India, there were reports that some Canberras and Mig-25s had sustained water damage etc. ………
Umm I didnt know that the 102 boys were based on the eastern border. Heck I didnt know that Bareilley was on the east coast. I tell you Gwadar Geography can get very interesting.
George JGD:
You need Scramble to tell you about IAF sqd? Tch Tch …and then you wonder who is the grease monkey.
Aditya:
The program has been initiated……many a fesablity studies on several aspects that you have mentioned have being carried out. There are folks on BR who will privately attest to the same…coz some of them have worked on it. I think the IAF is going cheap on the Mig-29 and will get HAL to come up with a plan.
________
vaporizer affiliate programs
________
Odyssey
George JShalav:
🙂
Rest:
You really cant blame folks for taking this on a tangent…most of us would have only liked to read PAF N_E_W_S on this thread, but when folks start introducing irrelevant stories about pilfered parts which are not even related to the AF then you start to wonder what sort of L_O_G_I_C propels people to post such stuff in the first place.
If you sow the wind ye shall reap the whilrwind…and you profess that sowing the wind was not your intention…it was education…thats all will sound like….breaking wind.
George JIf IA buys 400 more T-90s soon, the Arjun Mk 1 as a tank for IA has failed for all practical purposes – no matter who is to blame. Only a jingoist would deny that. For the moment there are 125 Arjuns on order, we’ll see where it goes. 😉
Yeah well for the Arjun to succeed somebody has to donate M1A1’s to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, for all the Taxila Toys and Norinco knockoffs the T-90S is more than enough. Besides Avadi still has an active Arjun line…and I really doubt that its gonna be converted to a T-90 line anytime soon….not after investing a bomb on those C&C machines…those arent donated ya know.
George JPlease refresh your memory[/url].
Ummmmmm………well all Simha says is that:
Inititally the French a/c locked onto ours with relative ease in BVR combat as they had a superior radar than ours. However, our pilots managed to reverse this trend as they flew r____ missions and had re-worked their tactics. This is food for thought for TACDE who will now analyse lessons of Grauda and innovate new tactics.
So what does that mean? They won? They lost? I prefer to think they lost (better err on side of caution when TACDE has to analyse lessons from Garuda)
But in Cope India:
…..Although service officials have been reluctant to detail how the Indians performed against the six F-15Cs from the 3rd Wing that participated in Cope India, Rep. Duke Cunningham (R-CA) said in a Feb. 26 House Appropriations defense subcommittee hearing that U.S. F-15Cs were defeated more than 90 percent of the time in direct combat exercises against the IAF………..In addition to reinforcing the need for the F/A-22, therefore, Cope India demonstrated that the service might be able to immediately improve its air combat capability by changing the way Air Force pilots train.
“The Air Force is re-examining, from what I can understand, our concept of red air and how we might be able to provide red air to our fighter forces so that we get [the best] training we can afford,” Snodgrass said.
I dont think TACDE lost sleep over this one.
George J1) US has been using F-16s for the longest time than any other airforce in the world. They have the best F-16 pilots and planes in the best possible shape. …………..India has a lot of confidence on MK1 …….. They wouldn’t want a crappy F-16 beat it out, especially if the opposing airforce is of the manufacturing nation of Falcons and Vipers………..If MK1 is unable to get more than 60% success against F-16s, think want your media and politicians would do!!! Your airforce would be more in trouble in that regard and would want to prove that MK1 is the better aircraft and for that they will have to take rather extreme measures … which include use of best tactics and to some extent sensitive equipment………..Air excercises are no joke, remember that. There is more than just pride at stake!!!………The US training manuals and style is one of the most advance in the world. They include the latest findings in training within days. I bet that within a month after the exercises, whatever US pilots will learn about MK1 will be properly documented and included in pilot training program, and since there is barely any differance between training of local or foreign nation pilots, it is hard to believe that PAF would not know what USAF found out…….
Most exercises are not about ego as you seem to think. IAF knows what the F-16 can do both overtly (RSAF-SINDEX) and covertly (possibly IDFAF). They know what their machines can do very very well (through TACDE). If the USAF brings their block 50/52 there is a technological mismatch with respect to the MKI and the incremental experience with this a/c will be very minimal to the IAF. Hence its prudent for the IAF to field its work horses like the M2K/Mig-29S/Bisons and the Su-30K.
If the USAF wants cool photo ops with the MKI they are more than welcome to have it, but if they want to see its A-A modes ….thats a different issue, they already know x of y of the Su-30K and thats as far as ‘goodwill’ goes.
About loosing to the USAF in the highly simulated conditions of an exercise, well the IAF has lost to the French and loosing is always an essential part of learning, it prevents complacency and keeps you grounded. But with the MKI its not about winning or loosing its about the crown jewel of IAF technology and using that to WIN at any cost is not exactly what a professional AF would do.
If the Su-30K/Mig-21/29 are unable to match the scintillating brilliance of a Block 50/52 then it just means that boys in TACDE have their work cut out for them. They have to hit the drawing board/soul search and find out how their work horses can best match the 50/52 the next time round and impute how the technology of the MKI would have changed the tide if deployed (more like a counterfactual analysis) and if they that 50/52 are really beyond the MKI then HAL MKI will have what they can muster in subsequent upg. Even the RSAF got to see only the SB023 which was shielded by EL/L-8222 (hmm flying that against F-16’s would either mean its only a hood ornament or it actually has F-16’s threat profile already preprogrammed into its threat and techniques library)
Finally its about the experience of the men behind the machine more than the machine itself. Not even the most advanced training manuals in the world will help if you dont have enough experience when you go up against the ‘old men’ of No.24 sqd. Who they are and what they do/can do with what they have is beyond the scope of this thread.
Foks:
Please dont quote the entire thread if you wanna give a one sentense reply. It just adds needlessly to the thread’s length.
George JWell…….during such exercises each sides shows the other what they want them to see. The Su-30K have ‘several’ op. freq and only a few select were/are ‘used’ during friendly engagements. These are duly noted and transmitted in real time via satellite to the respective ECM mfg for realtime inclusions in future upgrades (or so I have been told).
George JEuh… you do know the meaning of the word ‘average’? If you’ve got above-average pilots, you’re bound to have under-average pilots as well. Middle those out and…. tadaaa…. your average pilot! :p
Also lets be realistic not all IAF pilots are exceptional (as in any professional AF)…some are very much average and we hope that NONE of them are below average (those are are probably dead on the Mig-21-at least in my view….realistically their luck was below average even if they were not)
You need to learn to comprehend what’s stated in the context thats its stated…perhaps if you had bothered to QUOTE THE ENTIRE sentense (you will notice that there is no full stop after the portion quoted by you, its only something you have introduced on your own to add more noise to the thread for your own edification) you really wouldnt be wrestling with mathematics.
If you dont understand the entire sentense quoted above (or the explanation provided by Sridhar) please let me know.
Edit: Let me clarify….there are certainly ‘below average’ pilots by IAF’s benchmarks (but to comprehend whats below average for the IAF you have to understand what ‘above average’ is for the IAF….thats beyond the scope of this thread and gets us into semantics that I certainly cant back up with open source. Sufficient to say that for the ‘Su-30K/MKI program’ its very very very high……)
George JIn any event I have two basic questions
1) When is PV2 expected to fly, last I heard in Feb, it was undergoing system intergration and awaiting flight clearence.
2) The IAF has a shortage of pilots, hence I was wondering that in the future as more Su-30s come online and as each Sukhoi takes on two fully qualified pilots, will the IAF not have to pull some of its best pilots out of other squadrons to make up the numbers?
The MKI need approx 2 sets per a/c (i.e 4 pilots/wso) per a/c. Thats one of the reasons for a long induction cycle. Also lets be realistic not all IAF pilots are exceptional (as in any professional AF)…some are very much average and we hope that NONE of them are below average (those are are probably dead on the Mig-21-at least in my view….realistically their luck was below average even if they were not)
As long as there is a healthy mix of good men, exceptional men (TACDE with thousands of hours under their belt) and average men all flying one exceptional machine with adequate training…. its all good.
PV2: is a very complex machine…given what it contains….and its quite differenent from the flying triumvirate…since its weapons/radar platform…its integration and flight certification process will be significantly different from the former three. It will fly when its ready.
George Ja small correction to your post Georgeji. 2 of them are Wing Cmdrs. and Wng. Cmdr. Sandeep Singh is the CO of No.30 Rhinos. dont know about Wing Cmdr. George Thomas though. He could well end up being the CO of another Su-30MKI squadron.
Mea Culpa..I meant 4 sqd. ldr ++ officers (still top heavy).
Sign In
