George JFor those of you interested in this kinda stuff:
IAF for Su-30s to launch BrahMos
Feasibility studies on compatibility have been carried out and structural changes have begun on the Sukhoi’s airframe, fire control system and cabling to accommodate the supersonic cruise missile. Work has also begun on stiffening the Sukhoi’s wings so that they can carry the relatively bulky Brahmos missiles.
‘‘The Brahmos will be fitted with a reduced booster, since the Su-30’s velocity provides carrying momentum, pushing the fired missile to about three times the speed of sound, and a standard range of 290 km. The combination will be lethal,’’ said DRDO chief controller (R&D) Dr A Sivathanu Pillai. He added that once the design documentation was finalised with Russia, the implementation would be dovetailed along with the licensed production of Su-30s at HAL’s facility in Nashik.
India and Russia will also be opening two integration centres in both countries (Hyderabad in India) to integrate the Sukhoi and BrahMos, possibly creating a separate product for the export market under the joint project.
Very interesting……
George JHave you more hi-resolution Brahmos test launch photos (from Rajput too)? There’s only very little pics on brahmos.com… 🙁
There pics of the brahmos install on the Rajput, I dont remember if there are pics of at sea lauch of the same. Its the same as the angled cannister launch thats seen on the Brahmos site.
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George JPeter:
Anderi Fomin says that MKI can lift 34.5 T (also says MKK has a max of 34.5 T and a ‘limit’ of 38.8T), IAPO says MK does 34.5 T. IAF says it can do 38.8T (see harry’s ref and also there are two other Indian articles that ascribe to the same)
The point here is can MKI lift max payload and max fuel? It does……….whats been acknowledged privately has been reinforced by whats been published openly from IAF.
Vikas:
I am guessing the same kind thats been used on the LCA and Mig-23/29 (ask nitin for ref…nicely): “Laminated composites with carbon or aramid fibers in polymer matrices” that are “co-cured and co-bonded”.
In the 32 IAPO MKI they would only be in the empannages, in the HAL MKI there was a refernce to all ‘non load bearing structures’ being made into composites…so I am guessing that their % and # will increase with each successive batch. Depending on that the empty weight will also vary.
George Jhow can two aircrafts weight be exactly the same as 38.8Tons when TVC, Canards and BARS add another 2 tons to one of them?
**EDITED by WM
The answer lies ‘somewhere’ in the use of composites for all ’empannages’ and also in the 12,500 kgf wonly thrust AL-31FP. For you to lift max fuel and payload you need to be lighter to begin with and still have a powerful engine to fly with….or somewhere in there. 38.8T is simply the # associated with the ‘max fuel and max payload lift’ ability of the MKI. If the MTOW of the HAL built MKI falls to say 37.8 T that does not mean the indoo MKI sux…it just means that they are using more composites to make the empty weight even lesser, still retaining the max payload and lift.
But I really liked the way you are thinking….maybe there is hope for you after all.
George Jfire angle…..the name indicates everything. The is a forum where professionals discuss matters….people who have jobs….and I think possess common sense. where as I think you simply dont have anything. I simple child such as a 3 yr old will tell you what to do as my nephew tells me sometimes. If you are so frikkin concerned…you will get everything from google. Just stop coming here …I think it is best for all of us.
Relax VK Bhai….this forum is the home of ‘twu BVR’ and ‘only MKK can do 38.8 T’ there is nothing beyond that. You take this place too seriously…its a good place too keep abreast of some developments….but its mostly for TP giri…ain no way in hell you can outwit the twu BVR and MKK is 38.8T crowd. So dont worry have curry. 😀
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George JNo bait intent!
A question about the flight controls of Tejas; are they locally manufactuered :diablo:
Do you want to know about the HW or the SW?
In brief:
H/W: Dig. Flight. Contol COmp (DFCC) is Indian
Actuators: The prototypes are flying Moog, but will change over to the indian one’s once they get validated.
S/W: Indian….initial help sought from LM and from the F-16 VISTA program to validate the C-LAW, but went kaput in 98….Indian validated thereafter (lost time).
Do you want to see pics? Check out the protonriver pages or wait for BR to upload them in a few days.
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George JIt was contended that BVR does not work across International Boundry (indo-pak border), the bogie (or specifically a track) HAS TO BE on your side of the border to use BVR. Naturally this would mean that to fire BVR across the border you need some sort of permit: VISA. :D. THe Indians should try and get 10 year multiple entry ‘work permit’ from Pakistan for their BVR assets. :diablo:Offer reciprocal arrangement, but only J&K stamp for all engagements above POK. :dev2:
George JIAF and trusting? there alot of reports in Indian press from IAF which are not true in reality.
Yeah…for example how can they claim you dont need a visa to fire a BVR missile acorss intl. boundry? how can they claim to have BVR when as soon as you get good tone the other guys knows too…thats not two BVR ? How can they claim they have RVV-AE on their Mig-21…they are after all a south asian airforce, they cant be trusted.
George JMTOW of the Su-30MKI. Confirmed ten times over at Aero India but this little piece from International Aerospace was already available months ago.
Rubbish you ve never been to the IAPO factory…how can you trust the IAF with such #’s…even Irkuts still claims its 34,500 and ONLY the MKK has a limit TO of 38.8. 😀
BTW who confirmed in AI ..10x over?
George JVayu has the photos of the tails of SB101 and SB102.
24 Squadron is just ‘Hawks’ – possible that errors had come in due to the unofficial patch titles.-Jagan
If that’s the case then you need t change the title of the No.24 patch section in BR. It still reads “No.24 Hunting Hawks”. Actually given that there are a “lot of MKI’s” in Pune, are there any more number platings happening? I am pretty sure that all if not most of the last batch are full op by now: thats like well over 200 pilot/wso if my mad-maths is right……are they gonna throw out the No.6 next?
George JHarry, don’t the No. 20 sqn serve as the test and evaluation sqn for the Su-30 family in IAF. I believe all conversion training is done under the 20sqn and so do the operationalisation of new variants. In the long-run each sqn may develop tactics on their own but No. 20 is credited with operationalising the type in IAF.
But when No.20 came into being…most of the blokes (donno if all of them) came through the No.24 (Su-30K). I believe that the No.24 was very instrumental in the ‘MKI program’.
George JThanks, George!
So, you suggest No 20 sq has now only 10 MKIs while No 30 has the rest 22? And what do you mean saying “early 2004”? At Aero India 2005 I saw three MKIs (035, 036,040) – all of them were mantained by 30 sq technicians and had 30 sq markings on their air intakes covers. Do you know the maiden flight date for SB 101 and 102? To my mind 27 November 2004 was the date of official roll-out and IAF handing over ceremony. I asked in Bangalore Mr Fedorov, Irkut President, whether the first Indian a/c were flyable by the date of exhibition and he answered ‘yes’ telling that at less 3 a/c were assembled locally by the date. Have you seen the pics of SB 101/102/103 anywhere?
Well……..ummm………..errr……..you need to ask the IAF about that 😀 I can tell you that long before there was ever a No.30 Rhino sqd there were SB029 + (end of 2003/early 2004) and they were flying with the No.20, so they had more than 10 MKI….what exactly is the current structure? YOu need to ask IAF, and if you remember what I told you on the other thread…you are quite well know to the No.20 and 24. 😀
Also I dont know whats happening in Lohegaon after the No.30 moved in and No.24 moved out, but given that they now fly the same MKI its very difficult to say that which a/c belong to No.20 and which a/c belongs to No.30 which is hardly 300 meters away (assuming they moved into No.24 bldg).
Yes there are pictures of the HAL MKI, I think Harry or Jagan (BR) had posted pics of them in Bangalore when Putin visited HAL (SB102 ?). Regarding HAL Nashik building MKI, yep they were in Nashik long before Nov 28th, 2004.
http://www.hal-india.com/pressrelease181204.asp
George JThe IAF seems to call it “Hawks” only.
Hmm if you consider that as the definitive story of the No.24, then they are STILL flying the Gnats and are STILL based in Kalaikunda.
George JWell BR calls it the “No.24 Hunting Hawks”. ACIG follows suit. But BR has the sqd. patch and all No.24 birds simply have “Hawks” on it. There are two other “Hawk Units” the 107 HU ‘Desert Hawks’ and the 132 Flight Flight the ‘Hovering Hawks’. So i guess a prequalification of ‘Hawks’ is necessary. 😀
Can ask the folks on BRF/IAF to clarify this.
George JAndrei:
Here’s what I have managed to infer till date:
The No.24 Hunting Hawks fly the Su-30K (SB001-SB018) and are now based at AFS Baksi-ka-Talab (Bareilly).
The No.20 Lightenings fly the Su-30MKI Mk.1 (SB019-SB028) or the first batch of MKI and are based in AFS Lohegaon (Pune). This station was also the original home of the No.24 but they had to move out to accomodate the newly formed No.30 MKI sqd.
The No.30 Rhinos also fly the MKI. Recent pics from Aero India 2005 show that a/c with Sr. No. SB035/36/40 belonged to the Rhinos. However its not clear to me where the No.20 stops and the No.30 takes over, since ‘some’ a/c of the second batch Mk.2 (SB029-SB040) were flying with the No.20 in early 2004 (including SB035 which was flown by Wing. CO. Sandeep Singh CO of No.30 during Aero India).
The third batch of MKI (Mk.3 full MKI) should be logically numbered as SB041-SB050 but no pictures are available of these a/c and its not clear who is flying them. Logically it should be No.30.
To further complicate matter the HAL MKI Mk.3 are numbered SB101,102 and 103 and its not clear who will be flying these? My guess is that AFS Lohegaon has a composite MKI sqd (No.20-30) which are flying a mix of both Mk1, Mk.2 and Mk.3 (including HAL MKI).
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