Yep its 12 and its a gorgeous sight to behold an airborne in service MKI with 12 hardpoints with 4 each of R-27/23/77 or 6 each of R-77/73 or …………oh well you get the picture (or not 🙂 )
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Sv1000

………… You need to setup the support structures, upgrade air bases to handle the new planes, train new pilots (14 planes a year = 28 extra pilots a year) and most importantly you need to allocate money from your budget…………….

Actually its more than 28 pilots per sqd. Also even if you had the # of pilots where are you gonna get trained air crew to handle these birds. You think those fighter jocks will get down on their knees and changed the oil on their birds??? No way. These birds need highly trained and qualified ground crew too.

Hence 14 a/c is about right.

I thought you were trying to prove that the Bison dont really carry RVV. How where does the Mig-29 come into the picture? Also how exactly does India justify shooting down F-16 that are NOT on their side of the LOC. They were painted well withing pakistani side. And if you watch “Akashy Yoddha” it clear states that. When the Atlantique came across the IB it got its just desserts and that too from a lowly Mig-21.

Also since I dont follow your brand of logic I dont understand how Arjun MBT comes into the picture. There are pics of it but it does not carry RVV and it does what its supposed to do and it never claimed to be carry RVV. Like I said you need to come up with better examples of “mock ” missiles “hanging” from south asian a/c that are intended to mislead. I am sure you will find lot of those based on yoru claim.

What does an engine or pics of a engine have to do with RVV?? I dont think there were any claimes made about it either? Its still in development and there are pics that show precisely that. I dont remember seeing any pics of it having RVV or makign any extra orrdinary claims.

Please try again.

If i give picture of missiles hanging from an aircraft or lying in front of aircraft. It does not mean that missile is integrated to that aircraft or it is real missile. How can you prove it otherwise that it can fire what it can carry.
Every thing from top to bottom is fake.

First missiles dont ‘hang’ from a/c they are ‘mated’ to their platforms using adapters to which establish electronic interphase. Second of all, if you extend that logic nothing nothing is real. WHy stop at the armament being real even the a/c is not real if its on the ground. Third of all by your logic if an a/c actually flies and launches these missiles it could very well be digital imagery to “meant to give false impressions to the other side”. Finally why stop at the ‘south asian’ why not the europeans or the north americans? Why do you think that what they ‘hang’ from their planes are real and not fakes? Were you present for each and every armament testing phase to know for sure that this is turly a ‘South Asian’ disease?

Like I said…I really love your logic a few examples would certainly help your cause. Or would you like to run off to your other forum to solicit some much needed help in justifying your _ _ _ _ _ _ Logic?

In South Asia pictures are meant to give false impressions to the other side. They have no value. I am not questioning MIG-21 ability to carry 4 missiles as they are now used for ground attacks.

Yes….thats why there are so many photoshopped and CGI images of LCA, MKI, Migs….

Also please note the red star and the 21-93 bort thats DEFINATELY taken in south asia…..for giving false impressions.

And during Cope India the F-15 were on the ground when they were engaged by the Bisons lest we have the impressions that they were actually flying.

Listen, it took IAF 12 years to make up their mind between Jag, Viggen and F-1 in 1978………………No flame intented.

Viggen (American Engined) and F-1 are both single engined. Jag made its first flight in Sept 8th, 1968, HAL HF-24 Mk1R ended in a crash in 1970. JD govt followed up on the Jag proposal and MOU signed in Oct 6th,1978. First Jags arrived in Indian in 1979.

I am not up on my comment deleted by WM but exactly how do you get to 12 years for the Jag?

I dont know much about ROSE Mirages only what I have read above and all things being constant what is quantitiative better is defined by their utility (efficiency, uptime, ease of use etc). I have no # for ROSE but the DARIN I was 10x better than the older NAWASS according to Grp. Capt. Kapil Bhargava. But is 10 x better on Jag comparable to say 2x better on Mirage? Your guess is as good as mine.

Then comes the DARIN II with its dual redundant DARE Mission computers which are LCA/MKI spinoffs. Are they better than a single SAGEM Circe 2001, again I donno and I dont want to speculate. And since you are not making that argument that IAF Jags are obsolete then some form of equivalence has to be assumed.

There are about 12 IM Jags with unknown Elta 2032/Agave with DARIN II. Why didnt IAF retrofit all Jags with Agave may have something to do with the utility and application of Agave and most importantly money.

If I am reading Jagan’s page correctly its 315 crashes but he only has 163 on his records. So 315 out of a possible 830 have crashed in 40 years of service.