However, most of us who post on this forum are interested in ground to air (or even air to air) photograph of relatively small aircraft (as compared with an airliner) in flight. For that, a much greater zoom is required, if the aircraft isn’t going to look like a spec in the distance.

The std/de-facto air show lens is the EF 100-400mm for an EOS body. This would get you ground to air and distant on ground shots. I donno what you mean by the “80-200mm” in your OP. If you are referring to the EF 80-200mm f/2.8L (a.k.a “The Magic Drain Pipe”) then its a fantastic mid-focal length lens.

I have never shot air to air but given that you are strapped in with little or no movement it all depends on how far your quarry is, if you have good forearms you can certainly wield a 100-400mm (if your quarry is closer than its min focussing distance you have OTHER things to worry about). If not something like a magic drain pipe would work just fine.
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Meeh in about 18-24 months there will be a 50D (and a 450D) and then 60D. This will go on and on. I firmly believe you need to “outgrow” your equipment not get the latest and greatest just coz its there.

For once I agree with PMN.
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Here is the Digital Picture’s review:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-70-300mm-f-4.5-5.6-DO-IS-USM-Lens-Review.aspx

Here is the ISO 12233 charts on this lens sharpness and you can choose whatever comparator you would want with this lens. Check out the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=243&desc=Canon-EF-70-300mm-f/4.5-5.6-DO-IS-USM-Lens-Sample-Crops

In the USD 1100 price range (I am assuming the same difference exists in BP) the new EF 70-200 f/4L IS beats the pants off the DO in sharpness. You will get close the 300mm (280mm) at f/5.6 with a 1.4x TC II (another $285). Or if you believe that its an FLM and not an FOVC then you are getting 448mm with a 1.6x crop.
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But they missed a great opportunity to show what the Su-30MKI can do aerodynamically…….I don’t mind so much as I have seen Vyacheslav Averyanov display the prototype Su-30MKI at Zhukovsky and he did things with that machine that aircraft aren’t supposed to do…….If the Indian AF pilots could just display one tenth of what Averyanov did, then it would leave the crowd speechless 😀

IIRC the Mk.3 are still under warranty and doing “stunts” would almost certainly void it.:) There is a finite MTBO on the TVC nozzles and they are ONLY (and judiciously) used when required. If this was real combat they would certainly be turnin & burnin.

And if you read the HAL article posted on BRF (yep, I saw that JCage) it will give you an insight on how complex this whole MKI deal is for both sides. They have way too many “warranty” issues to work out using their “lost in translation” methods and the last thing the IAF wants to give the Sukhoi technical center guys photographic evidence from TEEJ et al on how the IAF violates their warranties.:diablo:

Without going into specifics some of the middle management flying at ‘waddo’ have serious No.24 and No.20 airtime (and knowing what the No.24s did to their a/c these folks have serious experience).

So it would be a very Oracle (of Twu BVR) type of thinking to assume that IAF did not do what some Russian jock did when it was his JOB to SELL the product, coz they didnt know how to do it. Not to mention NPO Saturn-UMPO would love to change out their demo a/c engines at the drop of a hat at the prospect of reaching IAF level sparing factors on future sales. (I know you didn’t mean it that way Ken, but there are too many Oraclites who will take that tangent at the drop off a hat).
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I am considering purchasing the Sigma 50-500 zoom to go on my Canon EOS 30 (non digital) with a view to future proofing for when I go digital. Does anyone know if this combination will work?
Also should I get a Sigma or Canon convertor to perform best.

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41922

It seems MF will work on the Bigma (Sigma 50-500mm) using a Sigma TC works on a Canon DSLR, I would assume that being EOS the focusing capabilities will be the same (if not lesser) on an older gen film EOS.

Please note using a TC means that you start with an optically superior lens which will still yield good images even after loosing 1.4 or 2 stops of light due to the TC. If you start with an optically mediocre lens or even a merely satisfactory lens like the Bigma you should expect to see sub par images.

Since we are on AFM (hence aviation photography) I would suggest an EF 100-400mm if you have not already acquired the Bigma. I personally use the 70-200 f/2.8 IS with a 2x TC with “acceptable results”. I dont get too many opportunities to shoot aircrafts so it works fine me and works great when it used at a 70-200 rather 140-400mm.

For further info, I would suggest (much to the dismay of some folks around here) to check out POTN (above), Digital-picture and Fred Miranda.
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Edit: I am just going to update this list based on what folks post. Or what I can glean before this thread gets Oraclized!

CFE that are common:
1) HAL/DARE RC1/2 <-Verified
2) SAAB Aviatronics MAWS

CFE that are different:
1) SAAB Aviatronics RWR on the MKM (vs. Indian RWR on MKI)
(a) Russian ECM (Pit’s translation) (vs. Israeli and Indian (and soon next gen. russian) ECM)
2) Thales WA HUD on the MKM (vs. Israeli El-Op SU967)
3) Thales Reco-NG Digital Reconnaissance Pod (Pit)
4) Thales Democles (vs. Israeli Litening LDP)
5) Rohde Schwarz VHF/UHF Airborne Transceiver Family M3AR for voice and data communication offers the most important EPM (ECCM) methods (Azhar)
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If you can use your old SLR lenses, an expensive investment, remember that the digital bumps the focal length by a factor of something like 1.6. So your OK old zoom lens takes on a nice increase in zoom factor!…………….In lookin at used gear, try to find out how many times the shutter has fired! Someone who shoots a lot can burn through the shutter mechanism in a couple years and then dump it on EBay to avoid the expensive repair! Also, watch for lost pixels on the CCD.

1) 1.6x is crop factor not really a focal length multiplier. http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/understanding-series/dslr-mag.shtml

2) I believe only on a Canon 1D body can you actually find out the real # of shutter actuations. On a X0D, or XX0D body it can always be reset using the EOS utility. I believe Nikon’s give you true shutter activation or so I am told.

3) While you can never believe the shutter activations on a non 1D body, you can get your shutter replaced for $250 from Canon Service too.
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I don’t think you really understand what you trying to type out on your keyboard. Any cogent critique of your inane advice is considered an assault on your equipment. You are the one who started this, now that you are getting bitch-slapped about your suggestions you think its an assault on your advice (its not an assault more like ridicule). If you had any common sense you wouldn’t be indiscriminately hitting the quote button to reply to my post, but rather quoting the most relevant portions. But I don’t think they teach you that in your part of the world.

If you had any idea of what you were talking about you would have said, “try a Bigma its starts at 50mm so it will give you wide too if you need it (and you do). And its cheaper too.”

OK I am done with you and your idiotic attempts to interject. The only thing you have contributed to this discussion is “try a BigMa” the rest of your suggestions and jibes are as insignificant as the rest of your life. I am done with you.

Now shoo………..
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