cdp206Actually, a little digging has found this list: http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/server/show/nav.9236
Chris
cdp206Chris,
The Council for British Archaeology have recently produced a hefty tome on the defence of Britain, but this does not cover offshore fortifications. Probably the best mapping for these would be the Admiralty charts!
IIRC Knock John kept its 6″ guns into the 1990s before they were recovered for a museum. However after that long in salt air I dread to think what state they were in!
ADrian
Adrian – is that the one regarding Cold War defences? If it is, it’s currently on the wish list – if not, tell me more before I hoof it of to the CBA web site!
Pete – you have to a bit canny about your search queries on that site! I tried for an awfully long time to find something regarding airfields (you’ve probably guessed that is one of my passions). A few test queries eventually found at least three free downloadable PDFs on the subject. Once you find them, it’s not difficult to order copies of them either. The first time I came across this sort of thing from EH was when I worked at Sheffield City Museum as a volunteer in the archaeology & ethnographyy department (as well as the ecology unit) and the archaeological conservator at the time indicated she had seen something which may interest me. It did. I donb;t have the relevanmt documents to hand at the minute but I’ve asked 1Group (who also has copies) to dig out the Eh doc. reference numbers. Ifg that’ll help anything. Many of these consultation documents and the liek are free.
Chris
cdp206Pete [this is off topic and maybe should be a PM, so I’l apologise to the moderators now!] – do you have any of the photos of the Shacks at Langar available? It’s just that a visit by 1Group and myself to that airfield is not out of the question for sometime this year. You can drop me a personal if you like.
Cheers,
Chris
cdp206Old Fart – thanks for that. At least there is a possibilty that a little part of the country’s defence heritage may not be lost. Will check the link you posted and see what’s what. As I said, I have never seen one of these things ‘up close and personal’ (well, you wouldn’t, living where I do!) but as a believer in the preservation of heritage, even a small amount can go towards something!
Pete.
Do you thinks it’s possible that someone, somewhere has a chart or record of these things? You’ve started me thinking now (a rare occurance, reading some of my other posts), there must be a record somewhere. I don’t know how comprehensive the English Heritage records are and whether they extend to (or include) previously extant structures, giving an overall picture of defensive devices? The ‘Defence of Britain’ project of a few years ago was a broad-brushed attempt to record structures, principally dating from WW2 (IIRC – I haven’t read the paperwork for a while) and may well include edifices such as off-shore fortifications. I have a contact at Leeds Met Uni who has had dealings with EH (albeit regarding WW2 airfields in Yorkshire) but he may have some ideas/further contacts. I could try him if you like and look into it.
Chris
cdp206OOPPS Department! I am now aware that they are badges and not crests, although I always thought that a unit had a badge and a station had crest. Must leaf through a book on heraldry to find the true definition so I don’t drop another one like that! Thanks AgCat/Bigvern.
Vern.
Thanks for your info/advice. I’ve made a note of the address and other items you mention and willact accordingly. We have found that it’s just that the two badges will begin to round the illustrations up nicely. The reason I mentioned/asked about your poster was for the reasons you gave in your reply. Most comprehensive. Cheers.
WV838.
I’m still waiting to hear back from the contact name I was given regarding our own query, although the exact location of the person concerned is unclear. I assume it will be a similar location to which Vern is referring – dunno until I hear anything! I was thinking whether you had contacted someone regarding badges, given your project. I had a browse over your web site yesterday and I must say very well done. It’s certainly bigger than anything I would ever have the room, or indeed funding for. Out of interest, just how much of a ‘telling off’ did the RN Records people give you? I’m starting to worry now in case my query was inappropriately worded!
Garyshack.
Did you manage to mail the address I gave you in a PM? He mailed back to me and said ‘yes – he’ll help in anyway he can’ [paraphrase but that’s the gist of it]
Chris
cdp206I’d like to see the cow that caused that! 😀
I was trying to think of one that went with that typo WV! Very good!
Actually, what is the future for that particular fort? Will it be deemded DBR and blown-up/scrapped, etc? I have never visited one of these although find just the images of them extremely interesting and somehow, quite spoooky standing alone as they do.
cdp206He-111 variants
Dunno abpuit the Red Dwarf reference – I clearly missed that one (which series was it in?). Anyway. Had a quick trawl (although you may have seen this, but here’s a list of He-111 variants as borrowed from http://www.battleofbritain.net/0017.html which may be a good starting point for ither internet/library searches.
He 111a (He 111 VI): 1st prototype, two 600-hp (448-kW) B.M.W. V16,OZ with two-blade propellers
He 111 V2: 2nd prototype (D-ALIX)
He 111 V3: 3rd prototype (D-ALES)
He 111 V4: 4th prototype (D-AHAO)
He 111C-0: six aircraft (D-ABYE. -AMES. -AQUY. -AQYF-ATYL-AXAV); two delivered to Kommando Rowehl for clandestine reconnaissance
He 111A-1: 10 aircraft based on V3; rejected
He 111 V-5: DB 600A power plant; all-up weight 18,959 lb (8600 kg)
He 111B-0: pre-production version accepted by Luftwaffe: one aircraft with Jumo 21Ga
He 111B-1: production bombers; early aircraft with 08 iOOAa. later 08 60CC; all-up weight 20.536 lb (9323 kg); maximum bombload 3.307 lb (1500 kg)
He 111B-2: supercharged DB 600CG engines, all-up weight increased to 22.048 lb (10000 kg)
He 111 V-7: prototype with straight tapered wing
He 111G-01: also termed He 111 V12 (D-AEQU) B.M.W. VI 6.OZu. passed to DLH
He 111G.02: also termed He 111 V13 (D-AYKI)
He 111G-3: two aircraft V14 (D-ACBS) with B.M.W.132Dc and V15 (D-ADCF) with B.M.W. 132H-1; both passed to DLH and re-styled He 111L
He 111G-4: also termed He111 V16 (D-ASAR); D8 600G; used by Milch as personal transport
He 111G-5: four aircraft with DB 600Ga engines, sold to Turkey
He 111 V-9: modifIed from B-2 airframe with DB 600 Ga; became He 111D prototype with wing radiators
He 111D-0: pre-production batch with DB 600Ga and radiators moved to engine nacelles
He 111D-1: small number of production aircraft. abandoned due to shortage of DB engines
He 111 V-6: prototype (D-AXOH) from modifIed B-0 with Jumo 610 Ga
He 111 V-10: prototype He 111E (D-ALEQ) from modified D-0 with Jumo 211A-114.
He 111 E-0: pro-production aircraft 3.748-lb (11700-kg) bombload; all-up weight 22,740-lb (10315-kg)
He 111 E-1: production bombers. 4.400-lb (12000-kg) bombload all-up weight 23,754 lb (10775 kg)
He 111 E-3: minor intemal alterations. internal bombload only
He 111 E-4: half bombload carried externally
He 111 E-5: as E-4 with extra internal fuel tanks
He 111 V-11: prototype He 111F with straight-tapered wing; Jumo 211A-3 engines
He 111 F-0: pm-production aircraft, all-up weight 24.250 lb (11000 kg)
He 111 F-1: 24 aircraft sold to Turkey in 1938
He 111 F-4: 40 aircraft for Luftwaffe with E-4 bombload
He 111 J-0: pm-production aircraft. 08 EOOCO; extemal bombload only
He 111 J-1: 60 production aircraft intended as torpedo bombers but saved as bombers only
He 111 W: modified 10-ADUOI with stepped cockpit profile
He 111 P-O: pre-production batch similar to V1, following J-1 in factory
He 111 P-1: production 08 601A-1; maximum speed 247 mph (398 km/h)
Good luck! Chris
cdp206Jeepers – badges are more complex than I thought.
Many thanks for all the info though guys, and Chris – if you do turn anything up, I’d love to know about it.
Roy.
WV. I’ll pop something here or PM you when something arrives. This is a big learning curve for both 1Group and myself The e-mail address I was passed was given to me privately so it is probably inappropriate I give it out on a public forum. I’m not hiding anything, just not betraying a trust. However, we are trying to find out if obscure stations (Ashbourne and Darley Moor) definitely NEVER did have crests and also how much the lincense is for black and white reproduction is for inclusion a commercial book.
From what I understand so far, if it’s private/academic/not-for-profit research, then the use is usually free. Need sone info on this but still awaiting a reply!
There are rules laid down for the issue of Unit crests, a minimum length of definite unit life span being one of them (5 Years is the figure off the top of my head), plus a number of strict criteria that the badge design has to meet, including a vetting by the College of Heralds and of course the OK of the Monarch. The only one that I know of that managed to get past the College of Heralds despite their major reservations with the design and Motto was 617 Squadron’s and that was because the King had chose the design and the Motto in the first place. As for using Station Crests on Commercial Publications, yes it does cost money. It cost me £50 to use a Station Crest on a 1000 off production run on a poster I did last year (via MoD IPR at DPA Abbey Wood).
Vern, that’s a really interesting remark. I knew that there were criteria laid down regarding publication and of course, the Royal Ascent part but this remark about 617 is really interesting. Also, I find you comment about posters quite illuminating. I would have thought (clearly I’m on the curve here!) that a poster, unless you are actually selling them, would not qualify as ‘profit-making’ exercise, as they are simply there to promote an event/attraction – or is that the trigger for a fee? I.e, it’s not personal/academic/not-for-profit etc. Any advice willingly & gratefully received!
Chris
cdp206Do you have any concept of what a museum is for? ….
Of course I have – I used to volunteer for one!!!!!!!! And yes, I know full well the quandry surronding what to display, how best to display it, can it be afforded yadda, yadda. A provincial municipal museum in the ’90s always struggled unless it was in a major ‘cultural’ centre (London, Bath, York et al) and the same goes, largely, today.
My point was, if you’d read my post properly, was I don’t mind seeing an aircraft in a hall. At DX, it will be properly looked after and hopefully light levels and humudity will be monitored regulary by the day to day staff and the conservation staff to ensure the airframe retains integrity and suffer no unnecessary matallurgical degradation and can be managed accordingly should it occur. I personally don’t have the resources to keep to trotting to a local collection (I desperately wish I had!) to brush aircraft down and make a round of tea but totally salute the volunteers and employees who do to keep them in the condition aviation and non-aviation people are accustomed to seeing exhibits in an environment this multimedia museum enviroment we have all become used to. However, you cannot have more ‘multimedia’ than a living airframe. I’m not suggesting for one minute that the staff at the IWM/DX get ‘889 airborne or even stick running Merlins on her. Rather, it might be nice in the future. If a museum has the ABILITY and POTENTIAL in resources to return an exhibit to somthing like working condition, then surely that should be supported and applauded. Have you been to an industrial museum recently? Try Kelham Island and have a look at the Don Engine. Stupendous. Static museum peice? Nah. Unique, though, er, yes – the only surviving rolling mill engine which can throw itself into reverse in under two and half seconds. You ought to see the pistons! And this is the end of the world where Merlin cranks were turned out in prodigious numbers.
The preservation, conservation and exhibition of historic or memorable artifacts. It says nothing about them having to be lifeless hulks, East Kirkby for example. An exellent airframe being conserved and preserved and exhibited to members of the public, therefore educating them as to what a Lancaster looks and sounds like while moving under its own power. Please don’t try and tell me what a museum is for.
By the way, I’ve never seen a sword or move unless a human hand is making it do so. And Lancasters never clashed into each other ( diliberatly anyway)
A reasonable reply, Moocher.
Chris
cdp206What about the Bader movie? I havent seen it myself
Which Bader movie? ‘Reach for the Sky’? Classic.
One I’d like to know about, if available on DVD, written by John Sullivan (‘Only Fools & Horses’) is ‘Over Here’ – a belting three-part semi-comedy shown on BBC (I think) in the late 90s. I had it in VHS but, whilst trawling through them again I can’t find it. Starred Simon West (Timothy West and Prunella Scales put in guest apprearances at the front and end of the trilogy, as ‘older’ versions of themselves ‘today’ from the characters played in the film) and also starred Martin Clunes as an ex-fighter pilot with a serious case of the ‘twitch’. Damn goo dentertainment at towards the end, very moving.
Is it out there at all? Daz?
Chris
cdp206Probably a combination of the posts above this one! Does DX/IWM or whoever have the will to at least get it taxi-ing though? OK, the thought of getting her airborne might be (currently) out of reach for whatever reason but another taxi-able Lanc might not be a bad thing? Or will it just be another static ‘draw’ to an aircraft hall to see a Lancaster close up. Personally I don’t mind that but another one able to at least move is a step inthe right direction?
PS, Lancman I still haven’t forgotten to look through the vids, on the subject of Lancaster! I’ll let you know when I have some time and PM.
Chris
cdp206… Ditched in Med Coded NF-N on Operation Percy 19, France, 11/12 July 1944 –
F/O MA Farr Killed -commemorated at Runnymede.
TT
Oh blimey! Not keen on the Op name TT!
cdp206That would explain why I’ve not been able to find one!
Thanks for the info. Surely no station would have been considered complete though without a badge. I know it was wartime but… would they have used anything?
Roy.
Roy, whilst researching for our first book it has come to our attention that in all probability neither RAF Ashbourne or RAF Darley Moor (42 OTU) had a crest. Neither did 42 OTU for that matter! However, I’ve fired off a mail to someone to check regarding the stations. Next project on the list is RAF Waltham (Grimsby) so we’ll have to wait and see for that one too. All three of these stations were effectively ‘duration only’ (although Waltham was Grimsby’s pre-war flying club – the 1930s hangar still exists looking as though it’s held up by a couple of artic-trailers!). Also, as they [the crests] are for commercial publication (with a potential limited readership), it’ll undoubtedly cost! 😮
THIS IS NOT A PLUG, MERELY AN OBSERVATION! Thought I’d clarify that chaps. 🙂
Chris
cdp206garyshack, you could always try Malcom Barras’ web site: http://www.rafweb.org/Menu.htm
Scroll down a bit and you’l come to the badges/crests sections
cdp206Am sure you can get them on ebay – a friend bought a Corsair, they do a P-51, T-6 and Hellcat too! Metal, not wood though
TT
Found this this little thread fascinating so did a quick Google around and came up with this (this company does indeed does a Corsair! but no P-51, T-6s or Hellcats though). Is this the same company for the E-Bay ones TT? http://www.pedalcar.com/category.aspx?sid=6
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