G-AGPGPORTHello Viscount,
Your statement is not factual and serves no purpose. Not sure the source of your information but it is is incorrect. The engine nacelle and I assume you mean the engine bearer, not “bearings” are original to G-AGPG.
The port undercarriage was removed in 2014 by 3 professional engineers witnessed by the then owners engineers, and I can assure you the integrity of the centre section was not compromised at all. There would be little point in restoring an important piece of history if another viable project is compromised.
The port undercarriage was fully dismantled and then from a scrap metal state taken to a fully operational condition.
You are obviously unfamiliar with the condition of TX226 and can assure you the loss of the port undercarriage is the least of the problems or “headaches” Montrose museum will encounter.
However it is that sort of “headache” that makes this type of restoration absorbing and worth while, to source missing items from as far afield as Australia is challenging and exciting, I am sure you will have encountered these types of challenges on your own projects.
There are sources of undercarriage assemblies out there if you know where to look and do the necessary research.
I am very happy to receive useful and constructive criticism if it based on fact, but may I suggest you confirm your facts before going into print.
Regards
G-AGPGPORTHi, sorry for the omission Avro Anson c19 G-AGPG – google for more info. Thanks
G-AGPGPORTIt appears that the Standard word for ” a male chicken” is not allowed on the forum. It is the correct term but in future I will write hand valve.
Amused Dave
G-AGPGPORTHi Mike, Thanks for the response. Don’t think it would be to directly pressurise the priming circuit instead of the Ki – Gass, because of the lack of control. Its a small pump but it moves a significant volume. The Anson operating manual gives the required number of pumps on the Ki – Gass required dependant upon the ambient temperature when starting, which I doubt you would control with the electric pump alone.
The best explanation to date from my performance car knowledgeable friend, (Wilky) is as follows:-
“On racing cars the electric fuel pump of this sort would be started, prior to trying to start the engine,to ensure sufficient fuel at the carb/injector as soon as you turn the engine over ie not turn it over and wait for a few turns for the float chamber/fuel line to be filled sufficiently by the engine driven mechanical pumps. I can imagine that if the electric pump was configured to do such then the fuel would get to the ports in a timely manner.Once the engine fires and runs smoothly the electric pump is turned off”.
I have found out since posting the thread that the small side connection above the filter on the picture does in fact go to the priming circuit, so the leg of this circuit up to the priming **** before the Ki-Gass primer would also be pressurised.
The mod did not appear on G-AGPG but I’m going to incorporate it anyway. There is very little head above the Mechanical fuel pump level, because of the location of my fuel tank, so any advantage I can get for starting will be good.
The added benefit, When seen by the knowledgeable contingent at shows, (sometime in the future ), they will be able to acclaim loudly ” hey that wasn’t fitted to Aggie paggie. I can then respond accordingly, Suggestions appreciated.
Regards
Dave
G-AGPGPORTHi Terry, It certainly be worth a look. Is it possible to get a copy of the relevant parts. I can provide you with my personal contact details if that would be better.
Thanks and regards
Dave
I have AP1830B Chapter 2 which covers Lockheed Mk 6, 7 & 9 and in chapter 3 the Mk 8. Any use to you?
Terry
G-AGPGPORTThanks Air Ministry, I am not in a panic for the info.
The Cheetah handbook for Mk’s 9, 10, 15, 25, leading particulars, as you say, lists the IAE BTH Mk IV for the Cheetah 15 and 25. The 17 is identical to the 15 part from the carburettor ( the 15 has manual mixture control and the 17 is automatic). I have not been able to obtain a BTH pump.
The lockheed pump was however specified for the Cheetah 10 and would certainly satisfy my requirements, i.e. to power the undercarriage.
Thanks for the help I would appreciate the info on the BTH pump.
Regards
Hi G-A,
I have the Maintenance and Servicing Handbook for the Anson 18C, which had the Cheetah 17 engine.
It quotes the engine driven pump to be an Integral B.H. Mk. IV three stage gear type?
I have details of this pump from AP1803A but you might have to wait a day or two as I’m pushed for time at the mo’.
G-AGPGPORTI am interested in your offer and have sent you a private email with my phone contact details.
REGARDS
This might not be the right forum to put this on but i have in dry storage the Drover aircraft that was removed by Barry Parkhouse from an outdoor museum that closed a couple of years ago. I have to get rid of it by the end of February and wondered if anyone would like it. It is free to anyone that would like to take it otherwise i will have to scrap it which is the last thing i want to do. As i mentioned it has been dry stored and it looks as though everything is there from the day it was dismantled. It is not for the faint hearted but it could be assembled again for static display. I can assist in loading and it can all fit on one artic lorry. It is at St Athan near Cardiff Airport. To many other projects means that it has to go.
G-AGPGPORTThanks to Anon.
Should have said thanks to Anon for access to the G-AGPG logs
G-AGPGPORTG-AGPG Engine Change Timeline
I have now had chance to review the logs in detail and have attached a timeline of the engine changes from first flight to last. This answers my questions of why AS80666 started life as port and ended it as starboard. It’s not always documented why a change was made but there are some entries based on “out of hours” etc. It gives you the option of configuring your engine as port or starboard since either would be historically correct for a given period. I intend to configure 80666 as a port engine as this aligns with the other parts I have from Aggie Paggie e.g engine bearer, cowls etc. It also covers the period when it was owned by Avro through to Ecko.
Regards G-AGPGPORT
G-AGPGPORTAvro Anson Aggie Paggie – Exhaust Configuration Question
Hello Dudley,
Thanks for the reply. As you can see from the attached pictures of the aircraft logs, 80445 was designated as starboard in March 1957 but in May 1964 the starboard engine was designated as 81899 and no mention of 80445. However I know 80445 was together with 80666, and the airframe, when I collected my engine in early 2012.
Do you have any other information on your engine, 80445, which confirms it was the port engine other than as you state the exhaust exits the nacelle on the port side?
Another interesting point, which your post highlights, is 80445 is/was designated as a MK15 but 80666 was a 15 but re-designated as a MK17 as per the pictures I have attached of the crankcase stamping and the nameplate. My understanding is that the 15 and 17 only varied with respect to the carburettor type. The 17 being was fitted with a Claudel Hobson AV70MH, which is a single lever carburettor with no manual control for mixture strength, in place of the AV70MG fitted to the Mk15. I can’t imagine two engines on the same aircraft being different Mk’s.
It sounds like I need to have a more detailed review of the logs. I don’t have them but I know a man who does, who has been very helpful to my project, and I am sure he will let me review them.
Regards G-AGPGPORT
G-AGPGPORTAggie Paggie Port Engine Restoration
The other propeller is still with its respective engine and the whole assembly is now under rebuild by Forumite, AGPGPORT, less than a mile away from where AGPG’s cockpit is being restored. He posts reports on its rebuild from time to time and he is making a superb job of it, the plan being, eventually, to display the engine alongside the cockpit when we attend shows.
Anon.[/QUOTE]
An opportune time to report that the restoration of the Aggie Paggie port engine is going well.
Today an important milestone was reached with the replacement of the final 2refurbished cylinders.:) Cylinders 7 and 1 had been full of water at some time and were badly pitted, even after honing, and have been replaced. Cylinder 3 has also been replaced because of fin damage. All cylinders have been through a full refurbishment i.e. fully stripped down, degreased, grit blasted, bores honed, valves reground and spray painted in high temperature enamel. All are still within dimensional tolerance as per the Armstrong Siddeley specification. The attached pictures give a flavour of the project and the status reached as of today.
The final configuration will be to present the engine as ground running, with all ancillary services, on its original engine bearer plus landing gear and wheel in the retracted position. The plan is to run it with the original full size propeller.
Thanks to all historical aviation enthusiasts, professional and amateur, who have supported and helped me with the project. Also thanks to the other two members of the “last of the summer wine Cheetah restoration team”, who are always there when three pairs of hands are needed.
G-AGPGPORT
G-AGPGPORTThe “Snatch Squad ” dragged the centre Section, Engines and ancilleries and cowlings out on a very quiet, specially picked Sunday morning a couple of months after the main hanger collapse. These Aggie Paggie parts were reasonably close inside the section of Hanger that was still standing. ( I say standing as a very loose term, because with those doors open, the rest of roof stayed up on prayers alone. ) ( I think the wings were pulled out the day before ) It was a scary operation, using a grab line, hooks and tow vehicle. Although the second part of collapse didn’t happen till just recently, it was still a high risk worry last ditch rescue attempt. But all came out unscathed, to allow them to be moved into Hanger 1 until our dear mutual new board member arrived and started dragging parts out into Anons compound. (We’ve covered this in other thread mentioned, ):mad:
So as Aggie Paggie has probably now used up her 9 lives, guys, be thankful that what has been saved is not in much worse damage state. I personally am very pleased to see that most of her will be incorporated into other projects if she is not to be re-built as G-AGPG and even more pleased Anon got her C/pit that will stay around North West. 😀
Bill T.
Reference my posting on the 15th March regarding the Cheetah 17 port engine from G-AGPG. This is also staying in the North West, not more than 20 miles from its origin. Restoration has started and is going well, only problem so far is a well seized exhaust valve on number 1 cylinder. Who knows in the future we may have a joint display in the “north west” of the cockpit and a running engine. How about it ANON?
All I need is a little help to locate the items listed in my earlier posting.
Regards G-AGPGPORT
G-AGPGPORTThe “Snatch Squad ” dragged the centre Section, Engines and ancilleries and cowlings out on a very quiet, specially picked Sunday morning a couple of months after the main hanger collapse. These Aggie Paggie parts were reasonably close inside the section of Hanger that was still standing. ( I say standing as a very loose term, because with those doors open, the rest of roof stayed up on prayers alone. ) ( I think the wings were pulled out the day before ) It was a scary operation, using a grab line, hooks and tow vehicle. Although the second part of collapse didn’t happen till just recently, it was still a high risk worry last ditch rescue attempt. But all came out unscathed, to allow them to be moved into Hanger 1 until our dear mutual new board member arrived and started dragging parts out into Anons compound. (We’ve covered this in other thread mentioned, ):mad:
So as Aggie Paggie has probably now used up her 9 lives, guys, be thankful that what has been saved is not in much worse damage state. I personally am very pleased to see that most of her will be incorporated into other projects if she is not to be re-built as G-AGPG and even more pleased Anon got her C/pit that will stay around North West. 😀
Bill T.
Reference my posting on the 15th March regarding the Cheetah 17 port engine from G-AGPG. This is also staying in the North West, not more than 20 miles from its origin. Restoration has started and is going well, only problem so far is a well seized exhaust valve on number 1 cylinder. Who knows in the future we may have a joint display in the “north west” of the cockpit and a running engine. How about it ANON?
All I need is a little help to locate the items listed in my earlier posting.
Regards G-AGPGPORT
G-AGPGPORTHi stuart you have just got to keep looking Im pestering a lot of people for my parts the hunt is fun though. Are you able to get parts collected from the uk? as I know a man that has some cylinders>>>>
Hello, Wildside. I am also restoring a Cheetah 17. The port engine of G-AGPG. I have 1 cylinder with some fin damage. Can you please let me have the contact of the man with the cylinders.
Regards G-AGPGPORT
G-AGPGPORTHi stuart you have just got to keep looking Im pestering a lot of people for my parts the hunt is fun though. Are you able to get parts collected from the uk? as I know a man that has some cylinders>>>>
Hello, Wildside. I am also restoring a Cheetah 17. The port engine of G-AGPG. I have 1 cylinder with some fin damage. Can you please let me have the contact of the man with the cylinders.
Regards G-AGPGPORT
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