TwinAisleIndeed, and whether the person in question is stateless, from an unrecognised state or even if it is impossible to determine their state of origin.
However, it is not a grey area of law, just a slightly complex one!
TwinAisleNothing that grey about it to be honest. You will have landed in the UK, but will not have entered. It is effectively as though your flight went non-stop over the top.
On presentation to immigration, the person will be either allowed entry or refused it. In the latter case, he or she becomes a problem for the carrier that got them there – this is the Carriers’ Liability Act, which allows a carrier to be fined if they present someone to Immigration who is not eligible for entry, and the carrier has to remove them from the UK within strict timescales. This can be expensive; the fine is £2,000 a head for a start. Most sensible airlines take precautions at check in to try and reduce this risk – does the passenger have a visa etc.
Some countries for various reasons insist on a transit visa – the CIS is one, so that even if you have no intention of leaving the airport, changing flights at SVO needs a visa.
In the UK, passengers are cleared at first point of entry – example, if a passenger intends to fly LAX-LHR-GLA-BRR, it is immigration at LHR who will do the paperwork. If they fail, the carrier that brought them to LHR will be fined, and it becomes their liability to remove him/her.
In the event of an airport evacuation (fire etc), airside passengers (and until someone has cleared immigration they are effectively airside) are evacuated airside, often onto the ramp.
Hope this helps!
TwinAisleEva B class tickets are non-endorsable and non-reroutable, but can be date changed (often with no charge) or refunded (for a fee). Refund only applies if ticket completely unused (eg, you can’t refund the return after flying the outbound leg). Normally loads of other restrictions relating to date, route etc, but that won’t worry you…
Be warned that it may take 90+ days to get a refund…
Amazingly cheap for a ticket with such a high degree of flexibility, to be honest!
TwinAisle1615-2010 according to Ryanair.com. That makes it a shade under three hours, allowing for the time difference.
It must have just FELT longer 🙂
TwinAisleI think a lot of people would benefit from understanding what “put” and “call” options are….
The deal for bmi was done many years ago, what you are seeing now is just posturing.
TwinAisleThe fin of a 747 is 60 foot high. The screen height of an airplane is sometimes 50 feet, sometimes 35, sometimes as little as 15.
You don’t pay parking by the height of an aircraft. More typical is payment by weight.
Landing and parking costs mount up over time. It could well be that an aircraft runs up significant debts well before it is seized by someone – it is not something done lightly. The debt is important since in some commercial arrangements, the debt has to be written off if the aircraft ceases to exist – meaning someone, somewhere has to take a hit on their balance sheet.
TwinAisleAfter all, when a company goes bankrupt and its planes are sold, the debts do not stay fixed at its planes
In an ideal world, yes. But frequently, before the airline actually gets wound up, creditors will put liens against the aircraft – rather in the same way that some unfortunate people find that the car they had bought had outstanding hire purchase debt.
But then there is the scrap value of the airframe, and the value of airport land and airspace taken up by the plane…
Well, if it is not flying, there are no airspace costs. But the debts accrued by the aircraft can definately outweigh the value of the hull. That’s why you can see loads of old aircraft laid up and rotting around the place, since the cost of removing them outweighs the value of the hulk. If the aircraft is worth $10,000 as razor blades, the airport is owed $15,000 in landing and parking, and the removal cost is $5,000 – why wouldn’t you leave it there??
TwinAisleUnlikely to get anything back from the lease, to be honest. It is likely that the lease will have a deposit (three months lease charges is the typical amount), but these will be offset by the costs of returning the aircraft to a “white” condition – eg, no decals – and then there will be a discussion to be had over the maintenance reserves…
Lease charges themselves tend to be paid month on month, not in advance. I would hazard a guess that by the time it has all been worked out, there won’t be anything left in the pot for the receivers, and the leasing company will probably be out of pocket….
TwinAisleIt is very dubious, legally, to impound anything on behalf of a third party.
In the general case – when an airline fails, there will be a number of companies, and individuals, who will be owed money. This will typically include fuel companies, staff, airports, leasing companies and Eurocontrol.
What the receivers must ensure is that all available funds are distributed according to strict rules – that means, in effect, that there is a pecking order for creditors, and if this is not observed, then the legal ramifications can be long and unpleasant – and very expensive.
The first stage will be the receivers trying to establish exactly what the company has – in terms of cash, outstanding debtors, assets etc – and then paying out whatever it can raise, according to the debtors schedule, from this. It may amount to just a few pence in the pound.
The reasons airports stop airliners, physically in some cases, is that there can be a grey area about where the airline’s assets and debts are. In the case of a leased aircraft, the lessor will want their aircraft back asap – since it has to earn its keep, and the lease agreement with the failed airline means that if the airline defaults (as, by definition a failed airline has), then the aircraft reverts to the lessor. However, in the early stages of a liquidation, the airport can take the view that the aircraft is still a chattel of the airline which owes it money; until the whole situation is clarified, the airport makes efforts to stop the aircraft being removed – to force the issue.
The reason some aircraft are left to rot is rather simpler. If Airline ABC owns a 727, for example, which lands somewhere and is impounded by the airport for non-payment of bills, then the airport will prevent the aircraft from leaving. If the airline can’t pay, then the bills mount up – parking etc – until the outstanding bill becomes larger than the aircraft is worth. Tends to happen with older, less desirable aircraft (eg the 727) than with newer equipment (which has a far higher value). So, do all flyable aircraft have a positive value? No, some will have debts that outstrip any potential resale price.
Hope this helps.
TwinAisleIt is worth reiterating that XL did not own its fleet, therefore they have little value to the administrators. They will be trying to reduce incurred costs all round, so that any ongoing costs are reduced to a minimum.
In the immediate term, they will be trying to ensure that the aircraft can be returned to lessors asap. To do this, they will be working to ensure that any outstanding debt is not attached to the hulls, so they cannot be impounded by third parties.
My guess is that right now, the leasing companies will be doing their very best to get the aircraft re-leased. They will be removed to a paintshop, and very soon, the XL logo will be gone.
As for the Paddy Power site, I wonder what is next – next member of the Royal Family to die? Tasteless in the extreme.
TwinAisleGive BA a call, ask for marketing, see what they can do. I have found them pretty helpful for things like this in the past. They may have something in their archives, or if you can get your other half to tell him which agency used him for the advert, they would almost certainly have a copy.
Best of luck!
TA
TwinAisleThe DGAC register is back with us today, and it confirms that F-ARNE is not allocated to anyone. Want me to translate how you could get your hands on it?
F-ARTE is registered though!
TA
TwinAisleTwinAisleHaving done this in anger, I can assure you that you can forget going down the bank route. Banks don’t lend vast sums to start ups, especially in the current climate, so you’ll need large equity based investors, or a pre-launch IPO.
Right now it is an excellent time to do this, provided you can convince your backers that it is an excellent time!
FYI – tenthije’s order of things is all over the place. You won’t even get to know how much money the authority will need you to have in place (before they grant you a licence) until you prepare a business plan that shows, over a two year period, how you intend to run the airline. You’ll have to show proof of lease costs, fuel costs, salary estimates, passenger forecasts, yield forecasts, fuel burn and route charges – and and and and and….
And after you have completed your plan, the CAA will take a very hard and objective look and tell you how much money they will want to see in your bank – and I have never seen them put your estimate down! Remember, their cash requirement, based on their assumptions not yours, will be drawn on the basis of looking at the lowest cash position on your forecast, and making that equivalent to roughly three months worth of costs, assuming no revenue… so not a small amount!
I would propose the following:
1. Work out your USPs;
2. Produce a two year plan, with cash flows, P&L and balance sheet projections;
3. Gather all the proof (not supposition) you can about your plan;
4. Get all your postholders in place (and pay them), making sure that they are all acceptable to the CAA, then apply for your AOC;
5. Start producing your manuals for CAA approval;
6. Apply for your operating licence (another cheque, btw);
7. Work with the CAA to reach a concensus about your cash needs;
8. In the meantime, set up your reservation systems, ground and airport contracts, fuel contracts, payment engines, aircraft leases, emergency comms plan, base and line maintenance providers, quality systems, safety management systems, and talk nicely to IATA in Canada about getting your two letter code;
9. Go and raise the money that the CAA tell you you need, and get your forex and fuel hedging policies in place;
10. Pay your deposit to the credit card companies, so they will give you your merchant numbers;
11. Build your website, and test it. Then test it again, and again, and again – stress test it, security test it etc etc;
12. Sign agreements with all your ancillary revenue providers; car hire, hotels, insurance; dynamic currency converters, car parking, lounges etc etc;
13. Design and purchase uniforms and a corporate identity;
14. Develop all your flight and cabin crew training programmes, and start recruiting your team;
15. Recruit your marketing, commercial, and revenue management/protection teams;
16. Get engineering reviews on your new fleet, and get the leases signed;
17. Get asked by the CAA to test fly – do that successfully and then get your AOC issued;
18. Get your operating licence issued;
19. Start your marketing and PR efforts, and go on sale;
20. Do something else for three months whilst you presell your flights – do some ACMI for someone else, or some charters;
21. Get your magazine produced;
22. Get your caterers signed up;
23. First flight….. and then the hard work starts….
Still want to do it?
TA
TwinAisleNot quite revenue service, but I believe MSN025 is still with us, as N747GE, a flying test bed for General Electric.
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