Actually, the YF-23 had no problem maneuvering at high supersonic speeds without thrust vectoring as it met all of the ATF requirements as well. However, there were some areas at supersonic speed where the F-22 exceeded the performance of the YF-23 because of the thrust vecotring. Then again, there were also maneuvering areas of the envelope where the YF-23 exceeeded the performance of the YF-22 at supersonic speeds. As with everything aeronautical, there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

As for the performance capabilites of the production F/A-22, the USAF recently allowed some performance specs to be released to counter some criticisms with regard to the programs problems (Mainly with regard to software). That included the fact that it supercruises at M=1.7 (That isn’t almost empty. It’s an “operational” speed). It’s top speed is usually just listed as Mach 2+ (But I have no idea how big the + really is). They also pointed out that it has the ability to spy electronically on computer networks, the ability to hack into them or to shut them down. They didn’t really elaborate on those points, but they attributed it to the F/A-22’s ability to get in close enough, due to it’s stealth features, so the electronic aperatures are within the range for which they need the power to do that. In another article on the F/A-22 the operational altitude was stated as 70,000 ft. The only thing I wonder, with regard to the F/A-22s altitude capabilites is, does anyone know if the USAF has developed new full pressure suits for the Raptor pilots? Most pilots don’t want to go over 50,000 ft without them, because if you de-pressurize, you die instantly (Above 50,000 ft human blood boils instantly).

As for overstressing the aircraft, based on the pilot reports listed above, he wasn’t refering to “pulling G’s.” He was refering to the q limit, the dynamic pressure limit. Aircraft structures are not only stressed for pulling G’s, they have to be stressed for the dynamic pressure (q) on the airframe as well. This is one of the reasons during a shuttle launch you will hear them say they are passing through “maximum q”. q, dynamic pressure, is equal to (1/2)*rho*v^2, where rho is the air density and v is the velocity (In most cases it’s just speed unless you are modeling a flight profile). One of the structural limits, q may be 800psi for the aircraft. So if it is a fast aircraft, the lower it goes, the slower it has to fly if it has excess thrust at those speeds so it doesn’t exceed the structural limits imposed by q, and the F/A-22 has excess thrust in spades 😉 . If you ever see a flight envelope chart for a modern high perfromance aircraft, you will usually see a curve limiting the flight envelope near the lower right. That is the “q-curve.” It starts at 0 alt, then as you gain altitude, you usually reach a point where the limiting factor isn’t the q-limit, but either thermal or thrust/drag limitations.

Edit Oh man, Sorry alot of what I posted was already covered. I sometimes forget this site has muliple pages, I’m more used to forums where everything is on one page..lol.

However, reading some of the other posts, some people are shocked that the 2D nozzles so close to the centerline can increase the roll rate. I’ll have to go back and read my book about the development of the Raptor, but my understanding is it can achieve the higher roll rates because the 2D nozzles can “take over” alot of the pitch power required for maneuvers, which allows the “tailerons” or whatever you want to call the horizontal tails, to be used more to help roll the plane then having to pitch it as on a conventional design. Therefore, the 2D nozzles “allow” the F-22 to attain higher rates of roll then it could without them. Remember, on modern aircraft, all of the flight controls work as a system, not in the old direct connection conventional sense. I mean, if I remember correctly, at very high alpha, the rudders control roll, not the ailerons. Of course, this is written into the flight control laws, so as far as I know the control inputs are transparent to the pilot. If the pilot wants to roll the plane he still does it through the stick. The flight computer then decides what it needs to move to do what the pilot wants 😉

Thanks!
That first three view looks like an interim design while it evolved from the G-8 to the ACF.

Hey Deino,
Did those books you picked up have any detailed three view pics of the ACF? That was always one of my favorite Dassault designs as well.

That’s very cool, I never knew that existed! Maybe they figured if the Curtiss X-19 had so much trouble, they weren’t going to be successful. Did they try to bench test the powerplant/drive components first?