kodakOriginally posted by Mike J
Unfortunately, the rotating of warbirds costs a lot of money, and, in my view, has added little or nothing to ‘Legends’ over the past few years. We have had at the past 3 shows:A pair of replica biplanes, in inaccurate colour schemes, that made a few flypasts – 2001
Yet another Mustang, in a rather nasty, inaccurate paint scheme (albeit a rare, Allison-engined version) – 2002
Yet another Mustang, in a rather nasty, inaccurate paint scheme (yet another Merlin-engined one this time) – 2003
Unless the types displayed are of sufficient rarity / interest, I would have to ask, ‘why bother’?
Personally, I’d rather see the money and effort expended on attracting some of the rarer European warbirds to Legends (Swedish Saab B17, Finnish Gauntlet, Swiss C-36 thingy with Hispano Suiza engine, Swiss Morane, French and German Yak-3s, Messerscmitt Foundation ‘109s, Red Bull stuff from Austria, to name but a few)
Cant believe we’re knocking Legends here! its just so unique!!
Re the last phrase, yes to the rest but the Red Bull stuff!!!???
An awful silver Mitchell, disgusting blue Widgeon, spurious Corsair and you have a go at the F3Fs , A26 and TF51!!? and dont get me started on the vixen (again!)
kodakWould love to see it.
I have a video entitled “Sky Spectacular” that consists of 3 short films.
First is called “the display” that is an arty documentary on Manx Kelly (leader of the Rothmans Pitts team)appearing at Biggin Hill BoB display in 1973. As I say arty but great images of the Belgian Slivers F104 duo, Lightning F1A, RAF Phantoms,Vulcan, VC10,Nimrod, Concorde 001, Poachers JPs etc.
Second is “she flies”- the Concorde first flight documentary.
Third is a closer look at the Rothmans team displaying in Spain.
I’d be happy to do the same with this one if anyone is interested.
kodakOriginally posted by mike currill
To be followed by the Sea Vixen, Scimitar, Buccaneer and Sea Hawk. Oh and put a Gannet in with the prop jobs. I nearly forgot, we need to find space to put the AEW Skyraider in there somehow
No, leave the vixen at home with that silly paint scheme:D !
kodakLa Ferte Alais is very good – “La Olde Wardenne”
Photographically and participation wise well worth the trip.
http://ajbs.com/Anglais/masterbrit.htm
Have heard about the Pratica Di Mare bash but seen nothing official. I have also seen a similar event at Grossetto in October mentioned.
kodakMust be the last serving UK miltary aircraft to feature the old underwing serial presentations!
kodakOriginally posted by Steve Bond
I take it the Firebrand was unserviceable?
And the Wyvern’s pilot was sick unfotunately!
kodakOriginally posted by Chris Broad
I saw her display at biggin last year. It was a lovely sight but i was surprised at how underpowered it looked. Struggling to get airbourne it seemed.
But i do not recall the routine being very aerobatic, it looked like a well orchestrated slow flat display.
I certainly enjoyed it very much and came to the conclusion that the RNHF had resorted to a simple, effective and safe flat display for her. Therefore i was a little confused when i saw the footage of that fateful day, and seeing it crash as a result of an aerobatic manouvre.
Terrible shame.
I recall the Firefly being dogged with (mainly) powerplant problems almost as soon as it was restored to flying in ’72. IIRC it was out of action for several seasons and flown very conservatively – which I have absolutely no problem with if you have been reading my earlier posts! Dont know if it was the ex Shack Griffon giving grief, after all the BBMF PR19 Spits have the same.
Early ’90s saw a new display routine that included rolls and “beefier” flying all round – it looked great!- nothing too strenuous. By this time it had lost the wing tanks which may have benefitted the handling and weight issues.
Felt like I had lost an old friend with it’s loss.
kodakOriginally posted by Bradburger
What fascinates me is how an experienced pilot can fly the same routine without incident in the same aircraft for a season or several seasons and then one day it goes horribly wrong. 🙁
Lets hope the 2004 season is a safe one.
Cheers
Paul
Second that last comment.
Concerning the pilot and the routine, I believe this was the Fireflies first season after being grounded for many years.Thus the routine and pilots familiarity with it were not extensive and probably only a few displays had been flown.
This now sounds uncannily like the RR Spitfire – a very hot day, RR Griffon, vertical manouvering (though certainly not a loop). The Griffon fit in the Firefly has always been subject to scrutiny – was’nt it a borrowed Shack engine “bent to fit”?
I apologise for railroading this thread but am very interested in everyones comments and feedback – not so much on the tragedies, but your views on display flying.
kodakOriginally posted by TempestNut
I too saw it all. After the manoeuvre at the western end of the field I had a sinking feeling of gloom as the Firefly flew from West to East, This in complete contrast too ANY display I have seen Ray, Mark or any of the other OFMC pilots perform. (and the BBMF, FC and most other recognised display Pilots) .
I must admit to only seeing the video footage of the final few tragic seconds. What manouvere was flown at crowd right that gave you cause for concern? The flat fly through prior to the turn seemingly showed a perfectly controlled machine at a good height and the griffon sounded fine.
Derry wing overs/turns are a pretty standard display manouvere. I attended the show on the Sunday and the BBMF Spit flew its more energetic routine featuring several derrys.
I wasnt there but saw the display at Kemble and cant see what singled this routine out from the ones you list.
kodakOriginally posted by TempestNut
Lets get back on track and cut the nonsense. .
OK we’re off thread here but this sure ain’t nonsense!
Obviously a contentious issue.
I have never drawn comparisons with any of the tragic fatal accidents and Ray Hanna. All I have said is low level aerobatics are a risky business and we’ve lost too many priceless aircraft and great pilots (fathers/sons/grandfathers) through them.
My point from the start is , OK it was different in the ’70s and ’80s- there were far fewer civvy warbirds and display flying was far more “flamboyant” for want of a better word. With a recent history of accidents caused inherently by low level aeros, I say lets be more cautious with the display flying.
As has been said , the jurys still out on the Firefly accident but if he hadnt have been flying a derry turn……..
The RR Spit at Woodford did have power setting problems if IIRC from the BOI. It was a very hot day and the BBMFs PR19 pilot also said he had problems. BUT he didnt fly a loop whereas Dave Moore did. The video tells all – that was a very low entry even for a Griffon engined spit.
RIP.
kodakaah yes!! I have piccies of both ! Damn you senility!
kodakOriginally posted by JDK
I’m out of my area here, but IIRC, there was the Dowty machine and either the same or another in private owner civvie hands. There was definitely a civil / private one at Mildenhall one year at least – got some nice photos of it somewhere, with the engines running, and coming what I can only describe as ‘uncrashed’ or on a normal a/c unfolded(!)
Same aircraft – Neil Moffatt ?? flew the aircraft from mid 1986 – early 1989. It lost the huge boom in later years .
Must get a scanning facility to post some piccies!!
XL502/G-BMYP I believe it still had its “LM” fin code and 849sqn b Flight markings
kodakJaguar was conceived, built and introduced as a supersonic aircraft (the RAF’s original requirement being a 2 seat supersonic advanced trainer and the French opting for a single seat striker)
Whether or not many Jag jockeys have seen Mach 1 on the clock is another matter! After all spey engined Phantoms were supposedly Mach 2+ jets but I dont think that ever happened!!
kodakOriginally posted by Firebird
Shame they don’t anymore, I remember an all too rare PR.9 full aero’s display at one of the West Malling Great Warbirds shows back in the late 80’s…..:D
Awesome….Got a vague feeling the pilot won best display award for it…….:confused:
Presume that was 1989. Fantastic demo and at IAT that year , rather too fantastic and he got a grounding from the display committee. Believe he departed on the Saturday for another show and never returned to Fairford! -Any more info out there?
A great performer at airshows is the Canberra and the PR9 is really something.
Really cant see a major problem with a Gannet back on the civvy register – perhaps the FAAHF could donate a pound or two to help??
kodakOriginally posted by RobAnt
That just about grounds all the private Hunters & Hawks out there.The Jaguar is only just supersonic, not much faster, if at all, than the Hunter & Hawk, if I recall correctly, which are both supersonic in a dive.
At least that’s the impression I had while serving at Lossie in the mid 70’s.
Don’t tell anyone, but I flew the Jag Sim at night a couple of times (once with the motion on) (Strictly for testing & calibration purposes you understand 😉 😀 ).
Jaguar is a true supersonic aircraft – Mach 1.1 either on the deck or at 30k. Hunter, Hawk, Gnat and Sea Vixen could only puch the barrier in a dive hence them being transonic.
Problem with RAF Phantoms (apart from 2 huge re-heated donkeys) is that they are technically U.S warplanes and the CAA would have to treat them as such.Thats why so many had to be scrapped, rather than preserved.
Sign In
