The majority on this forum is taking you serious

But with negative overtones and no, I’m not being overly sensitive

There are some constructive advises and critisisms

I agree but I don’t agree with the comments that just seem to be aimed at putting me off looking even though the majority are saying “great idea, but”.

There is no such thing as a collective slagging off of newbies. if that was the case I would’n want to be part of it and not participate on this forum

I think you should look through the archives again.

The majority of the participants of this topic are supportive of your actions but obviously there are many ways an investiagion can be done.

Couldn’t agree more but as I have said before, there are many ways to climb a mountain but the view from the top is always the same. A diversity of ideas usually arrives at the best and most effective solution. Sweeping statements about abilities and the form on which an investigation should take place are always a waste of time.

IMHO there is no such thing as old hands in wreck recovery that do not like new blood to mingle in “their” business.

There still seems to be an underlying attitude of just leave it alone as we know best here.

There is a certain way of bitchiness in your answers in reply to well intended advice.

I always respond agressively to negativity. Maybe it’s you who’s a bit sensitive. 🙂

There have been women involved in this kind of work in the past (remember Phillipa Hotchkiss, is she still active?) so the more the merrier.

I agree, the more the merrier.

You are very quick on the mark to put socalled arm-chair aviation historians (or sock and sandle brigade) on one heap with people who are active in this field.

I haven’t named any names at all. I haven’t defined any heaps here but in all sorts of activity where the word enthusiast is involved there is always a certain number of the “socks and sandles” brigade. Call it a term of endearment if you wish. 🙂

There are a lot of people on this forum who you can read about in the various aviation magazines (some of which are lifelong heroes of mine) and they would welcome any new blood to keep the torch burning (there are also a lot of people who do not want others to “steal” their treasures, but that is an unfortunate side-effect of this kind work).

Where are they? I don’t want to steal anybodies thunder or treasures and one of the things that I will protect at all times is my privacy. If something is found by me I will be avoiding any press and let someone else get their names in the mags. I just want to see some of these aircraft in museums. No hidden agenda. Nothing sinister. Just intent on having fun and doing something that I love doing which is wreck hunting. Done a lot at sea but never in fresh water for aircraft.

Final fact: people have given you some well meant feedback (among which I am one) which received a rather scathing reply (what I call bitching, but hey I’m Dutch).

Maybe it’s your own sensensitivies here again. 🙂

So once again. Good luck with your investigations and personally I hope to read about a succesful recovery soon in one of the various mags. If so then I can feel nothing but praise for your actions. But, over the years I have learnt from other people and from mistakes as well, I suggest you do the same.

I haven’t made any mistakes yet as I haven’t done a search yet. I have only suggested that someone i.e. me have a look for this particular aircraft and is there anything that I will need to look at that may prove that it’s been recovered and so far nothing has been brought forward. All I did was ask. I tend to look at others mistakes as I, hopefully, can learn from theirs. As a general will look at the generals in history to see what tactics were learned they will then apply their own thoughts and training on the modern application of their job with the mistakes/successes of the past in mind.

Finally: quotes of long dead people or latin doesn’t serve any purpose

Hmmmmm

Ali

Per Ardua Ad Astra

Hey Ali don’t do a runner – you probably have more support than you realise. I’ll drop you a line after I’ve moved house on the 28th . . .I dive, sail love speed and have two little lads who ski on the wake of my dreams !!! They’ll catch up soon but boy life so far is great and rewards are on the shirt tails of dreams 😀

Andy.

I’m not doing a runner at all. I have my ideas and it’s rather amusing to listen to the “socks and sandles” brigade who probably sit on their fat behinds looking at books and just criticise any effort or enthusiasm whilst trying to give the impression they are the experts in their field. There have been a few who have written to me about searching bodies of fresh water and given their support (you know who you are 😀 ) and it’s been great. One message said “I have done little research” and that’s a load of rubbish as I have spend literally hours searching the archives and following the history of these aircraft. The liken me to the guy who said “I will dig up these Lancasters” but I have never said that and if you check my posts all I have said is “I think someone i.e. me, should look”. Someone said “it doesn’t make Archaeological sense” but I have to ask why? They give me advice on searching water when they don’t even know what my experience is in search and locating wrecks is. There are a lot here who just spout rubbish and probably couldn’t even find their own a** in the dark with both hands. Oh well…… Can’t be helped……. Maybe they just think “Silly little girly”…….. Is there a part of the aviation enthusiast brigade that sits there at the end of the runway with a notpad, dressed in a parka taking down tail numbers?

Ali :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

“Some people used to believe the Earth was flat. There are some people today whom I’d love to push off the edge, if I could make it look like an accident.” Eromon D’Alyzala (b. 1942)

Allison – Unfortunately you are going to find it incredibly difficult to find people who are willing to help research Spitfires underwater without them having some vested interest. The secret will be through both searching the water and local recollections which might not be that accurate !
There are people on the forum who can offer help and enthusiasm – by all means persue your passion.

I now realise that and I will not be asking for any more information. There have been a few stars that have contacted me privately and I will stick with chatting to them about details.

Isaac Newton said “If I have been able to see further than others, It is because I have stood on the shoulders of giants. ” so I think I will look elsewhere for my giants. 🙁

Ali

Ali

I must admit something about P8187 in that all the records I have say

“58 OTU crashed/dived into sea near Menteith, Aberfoyle, Perths 3.6.43”

However, you have shown us the accident card which clearly says Lake of Menteith, which any map of Scotland will show you is quiet a distance from the sea, and is quite a large body of water

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?pc=FK83RA%20&scale=200000&title=Lake+Of+Menteith&cat=des

Now, even if you take Aberfoyle as the location, that is still a distance from the sea

So you have shown us a possible fresh water Spitfire, that no one has seemed to have spotted before.. Well sleuthed….

What can we take from this.. do not necessarily believe all the published records

Happy hunting

All we have to do now is see if it’s still there.

Ali