Allison JohnsonIf you had told him you wanted to look for old aircraft he might have been alright about it!
Yeah but would he carry my twin 12s and deco stage cylinders for me though. Anyway, he might have stayed if I told him it was an aircraft I wanted to find but instead I can now take down the dodgy painting prints and put the photos of the aircraft that I love on the wall and not ask for permissions at all (insert manic cackle here)
Ali
Allison JohnsonGood on you Ali ! – There is every chance that you might find something really interesting in a Scottish Loch – be nice if we had the same inspiration to recover that
the Canadians and Norwegians have.
I have the accident report of a MkIIA that went into a Loch in Scotland and even managed to trace the pilot. He told me he banked when too low and clipped the water and went in. He said the aircraft seemed to be in one piece but he was more intent on getting out so he’s not sure so I think it’s worth a look. I know that the Loch has been searched before with sonar but sonar isn’t the first piece of kit you should use so it’s little wonder that they didn’t find it. A peaty bottom can scatter sonar echos too so that would add to it but I have a friend who has a sub bottom profiller that can look through 40 meters of silt so I plan to press gang him into it.
Ali.
Allison JohnsonSteady on Ali!
He told me to give up the diving or he would leave me. I just love an ultimatum as I will always choose the option that they are least likely to like just for the hell of it. :diablo:
I now just want to find something and get it into a museum so I can feel a warm smug feeling inside that it was worth it. Being a bit of an aviation anorak I think it should be an aircraft.
Ali 😎
Allison JohnsonAlison – sounds like you have a busy few months lined up!
I have been very busy for the past 12 months diving so another few it’s too much of a chore. 🙂 I would just like to find something nice like a Spit and get some footage to stick on here and see if there are any takers to give me a hand to get it out and get it to a museum. It took them 6 years to find the MkII in Loch Doon but if they had a magnetometer they would have found it in 6 weeks so just happened to go out an get myself one.
Ali
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Allison JohnsonAli
I admire your get up and go but has anybody got any reference or evidence that their is ANY ditched WW2 aeroplane (they are always claimed to be a SPITFIRE) in Silent Valley Reservoir? I did not find a likely Spitfire when I did a quick search…Paul
I am always keen to go an search but only as long as I know that there is likely to be something there. If there is an accident report with the name of the body of water and there is no evidence of a recovery having taken place then I would get some friends and go and have a look. I agree with what you say about it always being a SPITFIRE as everyone knows the name spit but all I think is “he means it’s a single engined aircraft”. If someone can give me a tail number I will get myself down to the Hendon archives and the public records and pull all the documentation that I can find first and then decide. I have some movement cards of a few aircraft that went into Lochs in Scotland but want to have a look first. I have seen a lot of attacks on people from people who just pull facts and have probably never even tried to look themselves so I will keep things to myself for the time being. I took up diving to explore and have been diving for the past 18 months with a seriously crack team who have found a lot of artifacts underwater so I have been learning a lot. I took up diving so that I can explore. I don’t just want to be yet another underwater tourist and even sold my flat in London so I could buy the RIB and some of the other kit.
Ali
PS: It’s great to be able to dump the boyfriend and follow something that I really love. 😎
Allison JohnsonYes, pics would be very interesting.
Now I am the proud owner of a Sony VX2100E with a housing that will go down to 60meters and a 100 watt light pack I may try and get up there sometime. (thanks daddy but I was only joking about the kit for christmas) 😀
Ali
Allison JohnsonInteresting to know what is just below the surface in your area! Must go for a walk on the beach someday, see what I find!
Another wreck in the Forth, although one as likely to be found as the M52, is an Albatros DV that crashed there during a test flight from Turnhouse during WW1.
NMS had data from sonar scans of Loch Ness that suggested an intact Defiant is somewhere down there.
I have also heard about the Defiant. I was in the archives in Hendon and one of the staff there told me about it. He said it was a Polish crew and they swam to the shore but I have also heard that the gunner didn’t get out too so unless a number is produced then we will never know.
Ali
Allison JohnsonSadly there were a great number of loses where the pilots are not with the aeroplane and have no known grave. In the case of the Seafire I would be in this instance in favour of a documented inspection to determine the position. Whether you agree with the current rules or not I still favour a burial .
I got hold of a copy of the Protection of Military Remains Act 1988 and it’s quite clear about losses. Basically if the pilot or a member of the crew was lost then they assume the remains are still on the aircraft. I don’t feel that it should be left there though. If the remains can be recovered then they should be given a proper burial and it would give closure to the family. I can’t help but get the feeling that the RAF have an “out of sight out of mind” attitude towards lost aircrews and they just don’t want to pay for a burial or a recovery.
Ali
Allison JohnsonPS. The ‘Spitfire’ should actually be Seafire XV PR372 from SS Donibristle, which ditched off Starling Burn near Burntisland on 12.09.1945. Pilot Lt FWY BATLEY was killed
I just did a check on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website and the following turned up.
1 BATLEY, FRANCIS WILLIAM YORKE Lieutenant (E) 17/09/1945 26 Royal Navy United Kingdom Bay 6, Panel 1. LEE-ON-SOLENT MEMORIAL
So with no known grave we can assume that it’s a war grave so no recovery.
Ali 🙁
Allison JohnsonPS. The ‘Spitfire’ should actually be Seafire XV PR372 from SS Donibristle, which ditched off Starling Burn near Burntisland on 12.09.1945. Pilot Lt FWY BATLEY was killed
At position 5603.00N 0316.00W to be precise. Now who is going to go and get it?
Ali 😉
Allison JohnsonI think if there is any serious wreck hunting going on the FAAM should be assisting someone to find and recover a Barracuda from a Norwegian fiord for display.
There seems to be a lot of divers here who are also aviation enthusiasts and I was wondering if there has been a forum wide group who have gone forth and searched for something and found it. I have seen a few bun fights here when it’s even been suggested (which seemed quite silly to me) but nothing has materialised. What about a nice spit in a lake somewhere (silent vally would be a good start) to get our teeth into or is everyone content to sit around and press keys and pull out books and exchange facts?
Ali
:confused:
Allison JohnsonThe purchasee is known to me yes, but until its a done deal…. etc, etc…. 😉
How much did it go for?
Ali
Allison JohnsonThis is quite well documented. The emphasis in the Battle Cruiser Fleet was on rate of fire, based on an idea that the more you shoot, the more you hit and also on misunderstanding German tactics at the Battle of Dogger Bank – basically the German technique for finding the range was to fire three rapid salvoes not adjusted for fall of shot where the middle salvo was the estimated range. The range would then be adjusted for fall of shot depending on whether it was short or long. This was much more effective than the British ‘bracket’ system but the British battlecruisers misunderstood and thought that the rapidity of the German fire was the reason for their effectiveness. This led to sloppy flash procedures, doors being propped open, cordite charges being stored in the turrets and even in some cases flash screens being removed. This all meant that a hit on a turret could take a whole ship with it, and in at least three cases, this is exactly what happened.
Also the German battlecruiser Seydlitz had a narrow escape from this (if you can call it that) at Dogger Bank when a hit on one of the rear turrets caused a flash fire which wiped out both turrets and magazine. The ship survived (partly because of a British tactical error) and the German fleet learned the lesson, implementing much better flash procedures.
The thin armour of the British battlecruisers came in for a lot of stick after Jutland but if flash procedures had been better, three battlecruisers and thousands of men might not be on the bottom of the North Sea.
The German fleet had a well practiced manouver of doing a “whole squadron” 180 degree turn on a sixpence too which saved them.
Ali
Allison JohnsonBeat me to it Allison!
Jellicoe took a lot of stick after the battle (thanks in no small part to Beatty’s spin machine) but I often wonder what would have happened if Beatty had been in charge of the Grand Fleet before and during Jutland…
:p
Jellicoe had the attitude “If you’re going to fire something make sure you hit it” wereas Beatie had the American attitude of “lets throw a few hundred thousand rounds at it and we may hit it with one”.
Ali
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Allison Johnsonagain its from my long distance childhood! But i remeber stories of a Spit down in the resevior .I think there was something on TV news back in the 80’s about a search for it…thats all i am afraid! will try some of the lads over here ..all the web searching has been inspirational !!!
Beware its a big and deep bit of water! 🙁
What exactly do you mean when you say deep? Advances in technical diving have got to the point where the expression deep water is a lot deeper than people think. I know a team of technical divers who are regularly hitting some seriously deep wrecks. I am only trained to use Nitrox but am planning to get myself on the Trimix course and then move on to rebreathers so I can go there too. There is a serious technical diver who comes from the same village as me, in fact his sister is my best friend from school, and I am sure he would love to search it and raise it for a museum.
Ali
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