Allison JohnsonI seem to remember a doccumentary where they dived these Jutland wrecks, and showed that the ‘flash’ doors between the turrets and magazines had been wedged open to enable the gunners a faster rate of fire, but thus negating the protection these afforded to the magazine, and so enabling them to explode!
Steve
This is correct. Admiral Beatie was obsessed with fire rate and ordered the flash doors to be welded open and that cause the problem. Beaties problem that he concentrated on fire rate rather than accuracy. Beatie was the first to engage the German fleet and was getting a bit of a hammering and it was the arrival of Jellicoe with the squadron from Scapa that saved his bacon. Beatie was the guy who came up with with the imortal words “There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today.” as yet another blew up.
Ali
Allison JohnsonAnyone dived all the hardware that went down at Jutland?
Jutland has been full scanned and a large amount of the big stuff has been surveyed and mapped. The British Sub Aqua Club mounted a massive project there a few years ago.
Ali
Allison JohnsonWas on again recently ..didnt the same team find Bismark as well?
What about a dive on the legandary spitfire that is meant to be in the Silent valley Resevior in Northern Ireland???? will even offer B & B if it helps !!!!!
Is this another story about a body of water so there must be a plane at the bottom of it? Do you have any more details? Number? Date of loss? etc. etc. etc.
Ali
Allison JohnsonThere is also a Hudson I N7272 that crashed into Loch Lomond on 20/11/1940 to if anyone is interested in Hudsons.
Ali
Allison JohnsonI have heard a story about a Junkers 88 that Ditched into Loch Broom on 29/12/44 and was wondering if anyone can check this for me.
Ali
Allison JohnsonOoh – tell us more Hurrifan….
Sounds like a trip in the brewing here. 🙂
Ali
Allison JohnsonThat is probably the Avenger.
It wasn’t the Avenger at all. The two aircraft are quite different and I know the difference between an Avenger and a Seafire.
I have dived the Avenger and the vis was crap and unless there was some massive storm which moved it’s not the same.
Ali
Allison JohnsonIf anyone was going to that level of expense then HMS Hood would be a better prospect….
I watched that documentary on the Hood and was quite surprised when they said that they were surprised that it was inverted. All they had to do was have a look at the Scapa Flow wrecks to realise the effect on a sinking ship with all that heavy upper armour. The two capital class battleships landed on their sides and were supported by the superstructure but the weight has just forced them into the bottom to the point if you drop down the wrong side you will end up following a wall of steel to the bottom.
Ali
Allison JohnsonThis Seafire wreck mentioned by Allison Johnson a couple of months back sounds more worthy of a ‘diving’ investigation. For a start we have a sighting and a location.
Mark
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It was in salt water just off Burntisland in Fife. If you cleared some of the silt off the wings you could still make out the markings on it. There’s a Hurricane nearby too but I didn’t dive that one as I was told there is very little to see.
Ali
I have dived it and now I am the proud owner of an underwater video camera rig I can now start taking some pictures of where I go diving. I wasn’t driving the boat but I used to work in Edinburgh and have dived up there for a couple of years and have access to a sonar unit so I don’t think it would be too much of a problem to find it again. The problem when you are diving from someone elses boat is that you get taken to the site and told to go and then you come back up after the dive. It’s very rare that a diver will ask for the GPS positions so they can revisit.
I have a RIB now so if anyone want’s a summer long weekend jolly up there and you are a diver and have a boat handling qualification (don’t think for a moment I am going to do all the driving) it could be arranged.
Ali.
Allison Johnsonforget the English Channel for aircraft wrecks,low vis, currents, heavy shipping movements . Instead think about the Baltic,inland Lochs, Lakes,coastal bays and the Med.
I have been interested in fresh water diving for quite some time and have the accident records of quite a few aircraft that went into Scottish lochs but have yet to get out there to look for any. The first trial of the sonar unit was in Lough Erne. The Baltic? They can still be a bit banged up but the one off split looks in good nick if you want to check out the piccies. Looks like it has the standard smashed in nose but the rest of it seems pretty good but I am sure a metalurgical study of it could say otherwise.
Ali
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Allison JohnsonThere is at least one Sunderland in Lake Windermere at White Cross Bay(?). I understand someone has some sonar pictures(?)
My granddad built Sunderland flying boats at Chatham. During the war some minister or other from Whitehall was posted to Chatham to help improve efficiency. But being a “man from the ministry” the opposite happened and he was sent on his way. Not pleased at being told where to go, after the war he forced the closure of Shorts at Chatham and possibly Rochester (?). The reason given was that the River Medway was too short for flying boats to operate from (this after many years of safe flying). The last flying boat to fly from the River Medway took off NOT lengthways but across the river – too prove the point that the “man from the ministry” didn’t know what he was talking about.
During the war my granddad ended up in court for trying to join the army. He was fined. The problem was he was in a reserve occupation. Although he was in the Home Guard (Dad’s Army) he never forgave the powers that be for not allowing to “serve his country” and at war’s end he returned his Defence Medal to the War Office in disgust.
Another incident involved a scientist who visited Chatham during the war. He brought with him a chemical. He was given permission to use one of the flying boats. The fuel tanks were emptied and filled with water. The chemical was added and the machine flew on water (in more ways than one). Excited by the prospect of this new wonder chemical, the Americans invited the scientist to the USA. Both he and his invention left the UK but only his invention arrived in the USA – he disappeared mid-Atlantic.
Before working for Shorts, my granddad, Leslie Rhodes worked for Rolls Royce (not the company but rather the two men who founded the company). After the war my granddad worked on the nuclear Blue Steel missiles at RAF Wittering. He then worked for Elliots(?) at Rochester Aerodrome until retiring in mid to late 1970s. He died in 1989.
The Windermere Sunderland? Not that old chestnut again (grin). I saw that sonar photo in The Times and it definately looks like a fake. I have been following this Sunderland in fresh water for quite some time and there is no evidence that a Sunderland was scuttled in Windermere. I have heard this story before and having full access to a sonar unit I am not even tempted to go up to Windermere for a look as I know I will be wasting my time. There is a German aircraft in there as I have seen the AA gun report that brought it down as it was attacking the Sunderland factory at White Cross Bay.
Ali
Allison JohnsonNice idea but sounds to me like looking for a needle in a haystack.
I doubt v much that enough detailed records survive to locate this at all accurately. A similar M.52 model – admittedly of the Miles Arcraft Ltd Wind Tunnel variety (not from the Vickers/Barnes Wallis rocket model trials) – is already preserved at the Museum of Berkshire Aviation anyway.
Around that area is going to be a junkyard from WWII aswell so it would probably take several lifetimes to find it and as one is already in a museum then it’s probably not worth the effort.
Ali :rolleyes:
Allison JohnsonMany many many years ago when i was a kid I heard about an aircraft which was only visable at certain times in Lough Neagh.This resulted in a quite a few reports to aldergrove ATC about a ditched aircraft!!!
A friend heard from someone at an Airshow in Northern Ireland a few years back that a dive had taken place ,the aircraft had been found but then lost again ! anyone know anything about this? Think it must have been based or visiting either Langford Lodge or RAF Nutts Corner ..dont think there was any flying boat activity on the lough.
There is W6075 a Sunderland III 330 Sqn that ditched off Rams Island Loch Neagh 12 May 43. I have that accident report and movement card too. I also have the details of T2128 a Blenheim IV of 236 Sqn that Ditched on Lough Neagh 4mls SE of Randalstown 20 Sep 41 with the loss of the entire crew during torpedo training. The remains were recovered so it’s not a war grave but as the entire crew were killed it’s probably really banged up. Tiger Moth N9127 ditched in Lough Neagh 17 May 43. For a more modern touch there was an Avid Speedwing Mk 4 G-BUFV ditched in the Lough on 10th June 2005.
Ali 😎
Allison JohnsonI know what you fella’s are saying.
I just like my mossies in the active duty camoflage if that makes sense?It’s like the mossie they have up in Canberra, fantastic airframe…. but in a post-war silver scheme? plain wrong in my book. Especially when displayed at our war memorial, it should be in a scheme as used by our combat pilots.
Seeing it dressed up as a target tug doesn’t really light my candle. I always thought that the reason to restore these beautiful aircraft was to serve as a memorial to the guys who flew them and to remember the sacrifice that a lot of them made. I don’t really want to remember targets even though a lot of them were probably lost. I think that a mossie isn’t a mossie unless it’s in camoflage colours. Did this particular aircraft have any combat history?
Ali
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Allison JohnsonSea Vixen – There are only two Vulcan B.1 noses in the world – other ‘missus’ are available!
Boyfriends are dumpable too.
Ali
:diablo:
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