too soon to say

all it takes is one big win (India)

India??? not a chance !

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704590704576091194242710236.html?ru=yahoo&mod=yahoo_hs

I still believe the Rafale will win in Brazil but it will be a painful victory because Brazilians know how desperate the French are and they won’t leave any money on the table for Dassault.
Dassaults chances to win in Indiac is virtually ZERO…Remember the RAFALE was eliminated once and reinstated after Sarkozy called the Indian PM personally and ask him to let it in the pipeline
but since INDIA-US relations have improved immensly and the fact that both countries have already inked defence deals worth 10 Billion dollars including the licence for the manufacturing a GE engine, the chances of the SH is far bigger than the RAFALE.. And Indians are also interested in Typhoon ! If a western fighters proves too costly for the Indians, they can always resort to a russian option.
Rafale’s will never ever ever ever win in India !!!!!!

The US Congress will never approve a full transfer of technology with regard to AESA radar APG-79 which is the second most advance fighter radar in the world today. Dilma will reduce the price of Rafale further and most probably buy it in the end. Dassault will accept a sales price with ZERO profit because If Rafale loses in Brazil the aircraft is finished once and for all as export product but they will not do something like LeClerc tank sale to UAE were they sold the tanks far below the break even in order to get the contract from Challenger 2 and Abrahms that it nearly bankrupted GIAT…

The AESA radar APG-79, is arguably the best fighter radars out there and AIM-120D comfortably exceeds the good old AIM-54 in terms of range, accuracy and seeker technology .. So , the SH is not as bad as we thougt..
Even for someone like me who is still in love with F-14D !

Hello Aspis,

I came across this in another forum , very interesting stuff..

this is an article about HAF Block 52+ and Rafales in an exercise. The Block 52s were brand new and not fully equipped — apparently they didn’t yet have their RWRs installed. Nonetheless, they did rather well against the Rafales. Some highlights:

1) The lack of RWRs in the F-16s was a problem; the French fighters aborted when they detected a lockon; the Greek fighters were not able to do that.

2) The F-16’s AGP-68(V)9 worked extremely well and gave the HAF the ability to detect the French from quite a long distance and coordinate maneuvers at long range via Link-16

3) Due to its PESA architecture, RBE2 range is inferior to AESA; based on performance in the exercise HAF estimates its range is not superior to the [mechanically scanned] AGP-68(V)9. However the RBE2 was, as expected, more flexible, giving it the ability to track more targets simultaneously.

4) The French requested a second exercise after the conclusion of this one, which speaks well of 115CW and its F-16 Block52+

5) The ECCM of the 52s worked smoothly when the Rafales used their Spectra ECM system. The active jamming on the Rafales was not able to break the lock of the APG-68(V)9s.

6) The French pilots reported all their shots as a shoot-down regardless of range. The HAF improved its performance placing the majority of its shots in the “noescape” zone of the AMRAAMs. So the French aircraft got more shots, but the HAF’s ones were much more likely to result in an actual kill.

7) In all,the Rafale showed a marginal superiority but with a large numbr of low PK shots, unlike the Block 52s which achieved fewer shots but all in their missiles’ no escape zone. All in all, the Rafale had only a marginal advantage in this exercise with the blk 52+.

Certainly, the HAF aircraft in no way dominated the Rafales. But the Rafales’ performance fell far short of the claims often made about it.

What do you think about this..I am interested in your opinion..

Thanks dude..

the Mirage 2000 still had plenty of developmental potential, is cheaper to operate than the F-16, and already being exported.

M2K was more expensive to operate vis-a-vis the F-16 and no development potential at all..

you my friend, are right as always (98%) of the time!
I personally think the Eurocanards have more potential but the F-16, can do most of the same jobs at the same levels as them. Has much lower operating costs than the Typhoid and Raffie, and close to the Gripen’s cost. Has a wide range of weapons already integrated. Has many 3rd party upgrade options (like Israeli sourced) available. Already has working AESA and full A2G modes available.

I also agree that Aspis is one of the most dynamic and interesting contributor to this forum. The Eurocanards superiority vis-a-vis F-16 Block 60 for instance is only marginal.. Besides, the VIPER is hugely combat proven and as a result of ecomomies of scale much cheaper to produce ( 4700 left assembly lines which makes it second more successful after F-4 ) and spare parts easily available..

While, I give the Rafale the edge in this race. The Super Hornet could pull it out. Especially, considering France has failed time and again to sell the Rafale. Likely because of its high price………

BTW It’s my opinion that the Super Hornet will win the MMRCA in India.

I agree.. SH or the Russians..Remember the ‘Rafale’ had been knocked out of the tender in 2009 and later reinstated after Sarko phoned the Indian prime minister ..

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/12/07/350656/wikileaks-embraer-favoured-super-hornet-for-brazilian-fighter-contract.html

A wikileaks document is saying that chief executive of Embraer Frederico Fleury Curado stated that he hopes the F/A-18E/F would win the FX-2 bid as early as January of last year. This is not surprising at all given that Boeing has publicly stated already that they intend to work with Embraer on a new fighter project a short while back but he also stresses that it would add ‘value’ to the Super Tucanos the United States is purchasing. Technology transfer is another large factor. Mind you this document is nearly two years old and Dassault and Saab have upped the ante with their technology transfer promises but it seems the promise of technology transfer towards developing a new Brazilian fighter aircraft with Boeing is the most enticing factor to Embraer.

I dont think that Dilma would opt for the SH…Rafale will eventually win but Brazilians would not leave any money on the table…Hard bargain is the name of the game and Dassault can’t dictate anything Dilma says take it or leave it..