JDK pointed me towards this thread and asked if I’d like to comment.

First, thanks for the kind words and also the quotes. Looking at what’s already been posted, I can’t add anything else of use. On the other hand, I have learned a lot about the Lysander, which has added considerably to my own archive! For example, I’d not seen the drawings before!

Please keep the thread going,

Andy Sephton
(Airbedane)

Lovely pictures, Ronnie, and nice to meet you last weekend – don’t forget to say Hello again next time you visit.

A

Great Stuff Maarvin. Thanks for posting

A

Nice stuff Niall, thanks for posting.

A

Thanks Septic, you’ve really done us proud.

The Hurricane electric starter went U/S, which is why it didn’t fly in the show – I’m not sure why you say it was engine running, although, the Spit was next to it…… Hopefully it’ll be fixed for the next show in two weeks.

SRP is correct, the earlier the Spitfire (except for the pitch unstable Mk1’s), the better the aerodynamic handling qualities and the later the mark, the greater the power. The Mk VIII is thought to be the best compromise, but it’s really ‘horses for courses’. As for me, the clipped wing Mk V is the easiest to fly, but the Mk XIV with it’s Griffon, gave the best power weight – it depended on the mood I was in at the time as to which was best.

This whole thread reminds me of a joke I once heard:

Q: Describe the lousiest (Spitfire) flight you’ve ever had?

A: ‘Effing’ Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Test Flying

I’m not going to be drawn into an argument over who should or should not test fly an aircraft – most of it has already been said on this thread, and in any event, most of those who know me already know my views on the subject. Nevertheless, you’ve asked for input, so here’s a few thoughts to ponder.

1. A qualified Test Pilot, i.e. one who has succeeded on one of the four accepted military schools (USNTPS, USAFTPS, EPNER and ETPS), will have gone through at least the following:

– To be eligible to apply, the applicant must have at least 1000 hours as first pilot, have completed at least one operational tour and be assessed as above average or exceptional in the role. The applicant must also have a sound knowledge of mathematics, physics, English (or French) and aerodynamics.

– Selection for the school takes two days of written and oral tests.

– The successful applicant will then be taught how to assess an aircraft and more importantly report on the assessment. All aspects of flight are covered – stability, control, systems, handling, etc. The successful applicant will also fly 20+ diverse types during the course – i.e., he or she will be taught to fly different types with minimum dual or prior experience on type.

We can see, therefore, that the ‘qualified’ TP is of a high minimum standard.

2. First flights should be carried out by a qualified TP. Unfortunately, most owners tend to use one of their colleagues, or someone who appears to be a ‘good bloke’. For the most part, this suffices, but it’s when things go wrong that the right guy in the cockpit is essential. The right guy in this case is one who has proven ability and spare capacity, and one who has been taught and examined in that type of flying. Hairyplane was correct when he said that we should never confuse a good bloke with a good pilot. It may be that they are one and the same, but when things go wrong in the air is not the time to find out. It’s hard to appreciate, but hours and types in the logbook are not a measure of ability, they are only a measure of experience. Again, it may be that the non-qualified TP is of sufficient ability to cope, but the only way you can be sure before the event is to use the person with proven ability – it comes down to Hairyplane’s postulation of minimum risk. A qualification on type is not essential, but qualification on a similar type is.

3. Annual test flights – these are best carried out by a maintenance test pilot – the french call it reception test flying and it’s a different qualification to the normal TP. What we need here is a pilot current on type with, ideally, vast experience of different aircraft of the same type and mark. Spare capacity is required, but it is not as essential as that required by the qualified TP. The maintenance TP can then make a balanced judgement based on his prior knowledge of the type he is assessing. Qualified TP’s, by their nature, do not make the best maintenance TP’s.

4. While we’re on the subject of the French, they insist that all their test crews are suitably qualified and their licenses are marked accordingly. They differentiate between: Test Pilots, Flight Test Engineers, Flight Test Instrumentation Engineers, Flight Engineers (Test) and Maintenance Test Pilots – all have different qualifications. None are allowed to practice in their respective roles without the appropriate qualification. If only we could have the same ruling over here. We wouldn’t dream of going to an unqualified doctor, even if he had lots of experience in the role. We insist that our aircraft is engineered and signed off by a qualified engineer, but do we have it tested by a qualified test pilot. An approved test pilot, yes, but is he or she actually qualified – I’ll leave you to answer that one.

5. Back to first flights and what should be done on one. There seems to be an unofficial contest going on here, the winner being the one who gets the best photograph, carries the most ‘passengers’, does the most testing, or puts on the best show……… Personally, I close the airfield to other traffic, take the aircraft on the shortest route to the overhead, stall it to learn the approach speed, sideslip it, in case I need to on the approach, try some gentle handling of engine and airframe and learn how to fly it. The approach and landing are normally from a PFL pattern, just in case. The formulae has been built from experience. After landing, I give it back to the engineers for a good coat of looking at before the next flight. Photographers are kept well away, as are passengers – I don’t need the extra pressure either can cause.

As said, I don’t want to get into an argument on all this, it’ll be circular, it’ll go on too long, we’ll all fall out and we’ll end up not speaking to each other. It’s not meant to offend either, just treat it as food for thought.