And if Pakistan wants to sort out it’s internal mess regarding bombings and terrorism, then walking into Waziristan and cleaning house would be a great way to start.

Just like USA walked into I-raq and Afghanistan and cleaned out the mess, right?

Hypocracy doesn’t make much for an argument SOC. It’s just amazing that how fixated you and others are with Wazirstan while there is full fledged military presence of US and NATO in Afghanistan. How hard it is to understand that there are two sides of the border. Atleast Pakistan has started fencing and mining 200 kms on it’s side. What have you got to show except for the same dead questions that have been answered so many times by many but still don’t satisfy you.

Wrong. The people who actually tested the missile, claim it is the first test.
Until you are saying that the govt is lying or you have a proof that the missile was tested before this is a moot point.

Where?
I would like to see ISPR release saying Pakistan conducted “first” test of Babur.
This is the news that was posted in DAWN quoting ISPR.
Aug 12, 2005.
http://www.dawn.com/2005/08/12/top2.htm

“
ISLAMABAD, Aug 11: Pakistan on Thursday successfully test-fired its first nuclear-capable Ground Launched Cruise Missile (GLCM), Hatf VII, and joined a select group of countries capable of developing the ground-hugging projectiles.

The Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) said the missile, Babur, designed and developed by an elite team of scientists and engineers of Pakistan’s strategic organizations, had the capability to carry nuclear and conventional warheads to a range of 500km with pinpoint accuracy.

All design parameters for the flight were validated in Thursday’s test, the ISPR said.

Giving details of the cruise missile, the ISPR said it was a terrain-hugging missile, which had the most advanced and modern navigation and guidance system and a high degree of manoeuvrability. The technology enables the missile to avoid radar detection and penetrate undetected through any hostile defensive system. The missile could be launched from all platforms, including surface ships, submarines and aircraft, it added.

By conducting the successful test, the ISPR said, Pakistan had joined a select group of countries which had the capability to design and develop cruise missiles.

The US, the UK, China, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Russia and India are some of the countries which have cruise missiles in their arsenal, said a source. In his message on the occasion, President Gen Pervez Musharraf said Babur was a major milestone in Pakistan’s quest for strengthening and consolidating the country’s strategic capability.

Congratulating the team of scientists, President Musharraf said the country’s scientists and engineers had once again done the nation proud by mastering a rare technology. The president reiterated Pakistan’s resolve to continue to meet emerging challenges and geo-strategic developments in its neighbourhood. Pakistan’s security, he said, was non-negotiable.

The test-firing of Babur cruise missile coincided with President Musharraf’s 62nd birthday, who was born on August 11, 1943.

Asked if the missile test was intended as a gift for President Musharraf, military spokesperson Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan said it was a coincident that the missile was tested on the birthday of President Musharraf.

Asked whether any advance notice had been given to the neighbouring countries regarding missile test, Maj-Gen Sultan said under the existing agreement Pakistan had to inform neighbouring countries only about ballistic missile tests and not about the other categories. He said the Babur cruise missile was in the category of missiles which were not covered by the agreement.

“We don’t have to inform neighbouring countries in this case. It is not a ballistic missile and it doesn’t fall under the agreement,” he added.

The Babur missile is an addition to Pakistan’s nuclear and conventional missile weapon systems which include Shaheen-I with a range of 600km; Shaheen-II with a range up to 2,000km; Ghauri-I with 1,500km range; Ghauri-II with 2,300km range; Hatf I-A with a range of 100km; Hatf-II with 180km range and Hatf-III having a range of 290km.

“

Some of the gas trubines commercially available at that time (1999) as listed by NDIA

Feasibility of Third World Advanced Ballistic and Cruise Missile Threat :
http://www.fas.org/irp/threat/missile/ADA377356.htm

PAF seems to want a twin-seat version, so I guess CAC will get paid to do it.

It seems to be very low on priority list. I don’t expect it to roll out anytime soon if ever.

More drivel. If you dont have the basic comprehension to understand who is replying to whom and for what, ask. We’ll be glad to hold your hand and make you understand. :rolleyes:

NIck,
I havent seen a single post by a Pakistani or anyone else here comparing Pakistan’s industrial capability to India’s. I guess on this forum quite a few times almost all have said that Pakistan lags behind in that department. I don’t know how you translated to Pakistan’s fetish to compare itself with India.

Secondly i saw this

..which is true. It might work, but do allow me skepticism in believing that Pak can now make modern LACMs on its own, when it was willing to pay for tech transfer of thoroughly obsolete scuds a few years back!!

You have based this argument on the article posted by Global tracker. That article itself mentions US and South Korean Agencies convinced about the destination being Libya.

You are basing your argument on Indian claim of it being for Pakistan. Now guess why would you get a claim like that from India. Or Why wouldnt you get a similar claim if some boat like that was captured in Pakistan accusing India?

I have never heard or seen about Scuds in Pakistan. Since so many people here are firm believer Pakistan paints the missiles and displays them, why didnt they ever display a scud in Pakistani colors? If you have source for SCud-B and Scud-C in Pakistani service , or being tested since this whole technology transfer wasn’t just for few missiles but for production of missiles, then please share with me.

“This was a slice in time of a technology transfer from North Korea to Libya,” said Timothy V. McCarthy, a missile expert and senior analyst at the Center for Nonproliferation Studies who has examined some of the blueprints and other evidence.

But both U.S. and South Korean officials concluded that the cargo was intended for Libya, a conviction that grew stronger over time, said Gary Samore, the White House National Security Council’s senior director for nonproliferation at the time the Kuwolsan was seized. In fact, U.S. officials viewed Libya’s involvement as the single most surprising — and disturbing — aspect of the case. Since the incident, European officials have twice intercepted other North Korean missile materials bound for Libya. In January 2000, British police disclosed the interception of 32 crates of missile parts — mostly components of jet propulsion systems — at London’s Gatwick Airport as the parts were about to be flown to Malta, then on to Tripoli.

[color=red]I just cleaned up a good bit of this thread. In case anyone was wondering, it is perfectly acceptable for someone to question Pakistan’s design and manufacturing ability. The same goes with any other nation on the planet, be it America, India, China, or Uganda. Insulting a forum member because they happened to question the abilities of a nation is not acceptable. Neither is resorting to generally insulting commentary about one nation or another. Keep it clean, the “one week off” button is starting to feel ignored.[/color]

Nick,Joye,Tphuang,Ray and various others have been questioning Pakistan’s design and manufacturing abilities and noone tried to insult them.

Whatever i said about Sealord was because of his constant behaviour. He pops up in any thread realted to Pakistan and without any proof to support his assertions makes generalized statements. For example bringing in terms like failed state,talebistan when we are discussing design of a cruise missile hardly makes any sense. Whatever i wrote about him was based on the observation from other threads and i gave particular examples and i would be able to reproduce them if those threads are still there.

I have no problem with him participating in any pakistan related thread but i guess he should atleast sound like making a point with some effort to back it up as well.

hmm, that’s the thing, I don’t think HongNiao really exist. We know DH-10 does and have seen the H-6K picture carrying 6 DH-10.
http://cnair.top81.cn/attack/H-6K1.jpg
you can compare the LACM shown on there to Barbur.

Feng,

Thanks man thats a great picture. Never saw this one before. But if you look at closely all three missiles have protrusion similar to Kent. Here is one AS-15 missile. For the rest of the comparison it’s really hard to without looking at the booster section, wings and intake section of these missiles H-6 is carrying.
I still think that the picture of the missile hanging from ceiling is the best out there that resembles Tomahawk from that angle (but again we cannot see the booster section,intake and the bottom part for AS-15 like protrusions.)

Picture of HongNiao 2(can anyone confirm?) from Defense Talk:

INflight:

from sino defense
HongNiao 3 ????
“An Internet source photo showing an AS-15-like cruise missile being examined in a Chinese workshop. China has reportedly obtained some examples of the 3,000km-range, nuclear capable cruise missile from Ukraine in 1999~2001.”
(it doesnt allow hotlinking the image)
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/missile/cruisemissile2.asp