RA’AD air launched cruise missile

Are you guys talking about this image?

wan’t there some mention of electifying the skin of the aircraft to create an “ionisation” field which would disrupt the radar waves?

Or was that some piece of comicbook propaganda that has stuck in my mind?

Circuit analog absorber

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1097/stealthom2.jpg

When the ALCM and Tomahawk were originally designed in the mid-1970s, their small physical size and low cruise height was thought to be enough to give them a very good chance of penetrating Soviet defences – Soviet AF ‘look-down shoot-down’ radar technology was still at an early stage. So the configuration of the two missiles was defined by the need to be compatible with the SAC’s rotary launcher and the standard USN torpedo tube respectively.

If the Soviet defences had improved to the point where penetration capability was threatened, the plan was to install a small active EM system on each cruise missile.

I guess what i am trying to ask is, if air launched version was modified extensivley to the point where you can distinctly see stealth meausres in its shape, no such changes were applied to basic design of naval Tomahawk. The same cylindrical shape,round nose, movable intake scoop and straight wings (no sweep).

Is there a problem with launching something that looks like this from VLS or torpedo tube?

For what it is worth let me try to be devil’s advocate 😮
As governer of Texas Bush did push for wind energy (called up company exec and told him ‘we like wind’). If anyone had a chance to drive across Texas specially from New Mexico into northern Texas you would appreciate how dense the wind farms are.

Although it could be argued that US government can push for renewable energy on war footing and that could hasten what to me looks very much possible in near future (i.e. switch to renewable energy) it should not be ignored that they are slowly but surely pushing for it. Working as a contractor for a major power company i learned how much they are investing in renewable business and planning for gradual switch (one of world’s biggest coal gassification plant and wind farms with capacity in several thousand MW).

kindly stay off calling all those who dont share your pov as hindu extremists either.

that, if you actually believe in what you said above, and it wasnt for public consumption.

So the mob that goes on killing frenzy should not be dubbed as extremist? Sorry Sir always thought you do not condone murder and killing which is exactly what i was refering to.

2)I totally understand qsaark started it and i would rather we be discussing this in General discussions. But some of your whitewash against muslims just dumbfounds me.The way you generalize is appaling i am sorry to say. I hate extermists just as much as you do. Any sort of extermist. Muslim,hindu,christian. You seem to be actually defending hindu extremeists, where as i have spent quite some time debating with same animal on our side.

Nick you have highlighted the words extremists and hindu extremists and animal as bold and interpreted it as if i was calling you all of the above. please read it again.

This is what i meant even if it is not clear to you from my post
1)I hate extremists just like you hate extremists. Do you not hate extremism?
2)You seem to be defending hindu extremists (the people i consider extremists namely the people who indluged in mass killings).
3)By same animal on our side i meant extremists in Pakistan on our side. That would be Taliban types.

farooq, again you seek to both mischaracterise what has been written and the reality.
any colonial venture into a previously integrated society causes severe problems.
pizarros ventures in south america decimated the native population. similarly, the advent of islam in the indian subcontinent had a very severe impact on the local populace. but it didnt stop there.
repeated violence was committed on the native population to convert them by the sword.
by todays terms, it would be termed as a holocaust. please dont seek to explain that away as something which is hard to determine.
at the aggregate level, every event is minor, but at the actual level, these things do matter.

What severe impact are we talking about here Nick? Hindu temples seized to exist? All Indians were suddenly converted into Muslims? India is has huge population and the majority is hindu. You have your religion and your culture to this day alive. Hindus owned land were entrepreneurs and served in military. Akbur married into rajputs to make them his loyal allies against the pathans and turks. If there was warfare it affected everyone. When Babur came in he did not spare Lodhi. Declaring “Jihad” against rajputs was a very convenient way to shore up his soldiers. It was pretty popular theme in middle ages everywhere including Europe. His drinking habbits and fight against Lodhi does tell another story though.

It is not the first time that people from central asia descended on Indian subcontinent and conquered. It has been going on way before Ghaznavis,Baburs etc.

Rajputs are considered a warrior race and admired for war skills. Do you think when they descended upon subcontinet and established their kingdoms it was a peaceful love affair between whoever was here and who ever came later? Without having several kingdoms fighting full time against each other garbing land and wealth do you think you can exist as something close to a warrior race? I don’t think so. Was hinduism the first religion in India ever? Was religion not influenced by the values of new comers before muslims? Do you think people who were “severly affected” by those incomings any better off than the ones that suffered at the hands of muslims?

I woudl beg to differ. To me it is the same continution of wave after wave which came towards India fought killed and left behind their mark in some way.

as i already told qsaark, there is no scientific evidence of any mythological aryan invasion. and as one of the so called dravidians who were oppressed by the aryans, i dismiss this absurd fantasy.

If you are looking for a single distinct grand invasion by a hoard in one go that would change the face of India then you won’t find that.

The concept of Arya does exist in Hindu religion and no one denies the fact that dravidian culture is/was present. How do you disprove these cultures based on genegraphy does not make much sense when interbreeding would definitely cause the interminglling of hyplogroup phenotypes. The occurances of same hyplo types exists at vast distances seperated by huge streches of distances. You will find same genetic markers in different cultures but that would hardly relate them or bring them together culturally. It in no way disproves the fact that warrior people from central asia kept coming to subcontinent established their kingdoms and conducted warfare.

au contraire. if i have a bone to pick with the Raj, it is about their inhuman treatment of all indians and the complete economic impoverishment of the region. and your ancestors were indians.

The point is i don’t see you repeating that even one time in your post on this very forum. Not them not anyone before muslims but only muslims, why?

As far as ancestory is concerned irrespective of creed ,class,color or geography we all are the same . With our nature that is mix of good , bad and evil. For me we are all the descendants of those early people who set out from Africa. Why stop and insist at Indian ancestory or heritage? Just reading about history would tell you how countries,culture,religion and nationalities change. If you want to live in your time sure it is easy to see things in that divide but not if you are fascinated with human history as a whole which is something that interests me.

i dont grudge you your country- you are welcome to it. i would say that the events of the past 60 years have amply proven that despite the horrific events at partition, the basic theme itself was sound.
secondly, we do talk about all the above, but the british themselves are at the forefront of dissecting what went on during the raj and have repeatedly stated that colonialism was immoral and unjust.

I hardly see any slightest effort to redress what was done. Any effort to try and arbitrate or help resolve problems that were left behind. The loot and plunder, how much of that is back in India ?

but instead, we see no such pov from the islamic community, which regards the murder and pillage committed against non muslims as “never happened” or “others did it too, why pick on us”?

Nick, i am not sure why you havent heard anything about loot and plunder of the muslim raiders from muslims. I ahve no problem admitting it. Qsaark has no problem. And guess where did i read about that? In the history books written by Pakistani historians which are taught in universities. There is this series called “Tareekh-e- Pak O Hind” which is taught BA. I have read fair amount of objective analysis of reasons (loot) of the raiders you mentioned.

qsaarks posts began with the claim that muslims are victimized, because in todays world it is the norm to do so!

The problem is , do you want to live in history or in today? Do you think it is ok to have religious riots and killings based on our history or there is another better way than that.

it is not a question of assimilation or non assimilation. you are talking to the wrong person here farooq, i am an indian of a state which practises assimilation to the extent that it can.

if we didnt believe in assimilation, would we not have done what pakistan did and created our own version of an exclusivist state. would india have so many muslims in its govt, services or even elect them as its president otherwise.

the point is not whether muslims cannot integrate. the point is that some muslims dont.

and these muslims again quote scripture, point to history.

Nick, India is a melting pot and popultion magnifies that fact manifold. I don’t have a problem with understanding there is friction and some groups have it at the expense of other. It’s the same every where and this is how human societies work no matter who says what. We can only hope to minimize it and that is when it becomes totally unacceptable to people like you and me, incidents like Godhra i India or burning of Shanti nagar in Pakistan.

I have met quite a few muslim indians and none of them was pointing to scriptures trying to be my bossom buddy because of my religion. Fun fact, just right after partition Sahibzada Yaqub Khan’s brother was defending an Indian army post as an officer of Indian army which he was supposed to go after. If muslims have been serving India as Indians then i think it’s unfair to paint them as fifth column just because of their religion.

tell me, why are pakistans missiles named ghauri, ghaznavi, and babur?
who were these people? were they not bigots, murderers and pillagers?

If we are going to apply today’s standard then definitely they were all those things. Atleast the last one founded an empire which gave India a system. But who was not during those day doing all those things you called them?

The only reason the missiles are named after them i can think of is that they were warriors. There is a statue of Prophet Muhammed outside US supreme court among other personalities who are considered law givers. Do you think that is to be interpreted as US endorsement of Islamic laws or everything that is part of that law in anyway? How about picture of Tippu Sultan and his rockets at NASA building? Does it mean they certified his every action and was deemed fit according to prevailing moral values of United States?

why should you expect the non muslim to forget his history and not be aware of what some muslims did because they were convinced they were doing so in the service of islam?

why is the non muslim always at fault here, is islam unable to withstand critique?

Depends on who you are debating with. Would you believe i have debated almost every aspect of islam in school among friends back in Pakistan? When you paint Pakistan as a totally intolerant society in which you cannot question religion then to me it sounds totally contradictory to my 20 years of experience and the kind of open discussions i had sitting in history classes. If you were true about that then i would have not lived to see this day. The riotings and what not that you see is there but tell me is it any difference then the protest when they decided to make that sealane between India and srilanak considered of religious importance ? There are alot of countries and societies which have a long way to go before we can hold banners and have silent protests like in west. They havent come to this stage in one day either.

so why deny it? what prevents you and qsaark from acknowledging the antics of islamic rulers and the holocausts committed by them?

The problem is that i am willing to accept that and he is willing to accept some of that too. Are you willing to accept it was not abnormal and perfectly normal to do such things everywhere including India?

is it asking for too much for you to admit the same? if you guys can constantly complain about how the world treats you, where is the other side of the coin, about what islam did to the world?

I don’t complain about what world is doing to muslims. They are reponsible for most of what is happening. Noone helps you if you dont help yourself.

what whitewash? your pakistani brethren keep attacking me, my religion and country based on islam, islam, and more islam and you expect us indians to take it lying down?

I never attacked you. How many times have you seen me post about hindu religion or anything including caste system or rioting or whatnot?

And do you not consider indian muslims as indians?

look in the mirror farooq, you and your boys are obsessed with islam, you cant even admit that crimes have been committed by muslims which have led to the present state of affairs.

I can speak for myself and i am not. If there is something you can point to and it sounds fair you wont find me lacking in calling spade a spade.

calling me names wont do- if there are folks more extreme than you, than i wonder!!

Bhai when did i call you any names? I have already been called a pig though 😉