ChiefofFairiesDeryck: Sorry – I didn’t intentionally ignore you – just returned from hols! Anyway, subsequent contributions seem to have answered your query. Just a couple of additions:
B-004 at Buenos Aires (as B-010) never actually flew with the RAF, it went straight from production as RE351 to open store at Langar, from where it was selected to be refurbished for the Fuerza Aerea Argentina (Argentine Air Force).
B-016 was a Lincoln B.2A built specifically for the Fuerza Aerea Argentina, and displayed at the end of its life at the Lincolns’ main operating base as B-017. Apparently, during one of Argentina’s revolutions, B-016 sustained damage from cannon fire from a Gloster Meteor of the opposing faction!
Surviving Lincolns: The Lincoln-in-the-lake in Canada is SX924, a B.2/4A. It was fitted out for winter trials by Avro at Woodford, and then Scottish Aviation at Prestwick, the outboard Merlin 68As being replaced by Merlin 621s, and the special instrumentation from the previous winter trials Lincoln I – RE259 – being installed. It was Taken on Strength by the RCAF on 1/11/47 and delivered to the Winter Experimental Establishment at Edmonton. On 10/11/48, while being transferred to the detached site at Watson Lake, it suffered fuel flow problems in bad weather and was forced to ditch in the lake. The state of the aircraft can be seen in the photos contributed by Mark Pilkington, and tend to point up why it wasn’t included in Flypast’s list of survivors!
Incidentally, SX924 is not a true Canadian Lincoln, that distinction goes to the one and only B.15 – FM300, the first of an intended production run that didn’t happen. It had a very short life, and if anybody has any details of that, I would greatly appreciate hearing from them.
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesSorry, Dean, my Lincoln histories are just the fruits of my research, not a publication as such. However, they are being printed in ‘The British Roundel’ which is the journal of Roundel Research, published to members nominally 6 times a year. But there were alot of Lincolns and it’s taking years to get through them. More details, if you’re interested, from RRE(AT)Panthom.com.
But I’m happy to help with another Lincoln query, if you have one.
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesDean
Extracts taken from my Lincoln histories (in a bit of a hurry, I’m afraid). Hope they help.
Regards
Allan
PS Any chance of a high quality JPEG copy of that formation of six, please?
To allan(AT)ferretlodge.co.uk if you can.
EXTRACTS FROM LINCOLN HISTORIES:
RE360 From the Reserve Holding Unit, Waddington to Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme on 7.2.55. Transferred to Hemswell for BCBS Attack Wing on 23.12.55 but with the run-down of the wing, returned to Lindholme on 26.6.56. Declared Cat.3R on 5.11.56 with repairs on site, returning to BCBS on 29.3.57. Provisionally Cat.5 on 15.10.59, but flown to 23 MU at Aldergrove on 15.12.59 and to non-effective stock for spares recovery on 23.12.59. Sold as scrap to Enfield Rolling Mills on 30.5.60.
RF389 To Bomber Command Aircraft Modification Section at Binbrook on 29.1.53 and after preparation for service, issued to the Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme on 20.3.53 and subsequently noted with red spinners. Declared Cat.3 on 22.3.56 with repairs on site by an AV Roe team between 4.4.56 and 5.7.56 when returned to BCBS. Flown to 23 MU, Aldergrove on 4.10.60, to non effective stock on 17.11.60 and sold as scrap to HH Bushell & Co on 30.10.61.
SX944 Issued from Reserve Holding Unit, Waddington to the Bomber Command Bombing School at Lindholme on 7.4.55. Declared Cat.3 on 28.9.56, reason not known, with repairs on site by an AV Roe team from 12.10.56 to 21.12.56 when returned to BCBS charge. Provisionally declared Cat.5 at Lindholme on 28.7.58 but not flown to 23 MU, Aldergrove until 15.12.59. Here it was transferred to non-effective stock eight days later and sold as scrap to an unknown buyer on 30.5.60.
RF398 Issued from 5 MU, Kemble to BCBS at Lindholme on 27.11.57. Noted on display at Gaydon on Battle of Britain Day, 9.60, with royal blue spinners. Flown to 23 MU at Aldergrove on 4.10.60 from where it was issued to the Central Signals Establishment at Watton on 27.7.61. Currently on display at Cosford.
RA719 Transferred from 7 Sqdn at Upwood to BCBS at Lindholme on 1.12.52. Recorded with code ‘A’ on 8.9.53 and 10.9.53. Declared Cat.3 on 25.6.56 with AV Roe carrying out repairs from 28.6.56 until 26.10.56 when it returned to BCBS charge. Declared Cat.5 provisionally on 23.10.59, and Struck off Charge on 23.11.59. Photographed on its belly on the Lindholme dump and presumably scrapped there.
WD143 Became part of Bomber Command Bombing School Attack Wing at Hemswell when 97 Sqdn was absorbed into the wing as Arrow Sqdn on 2.1.56. Moved to BCBS at Lindholme on 18.9.56. Flown to 23 MU on 10.10.60, transferred to non-effective stock on 17.11.60 and sold as scrap to H Bushell & Co on 20.10.61.
ChiefofFairiesMike
To summarise the info given above (and add a bit!):
Air Ministry Forms 78 – Aircraft Movement Cards – one or more cards per airframe, giving very brief details of that airframe’s movement between units. Original cards held by MOD Air Historical Branch, with microfilmed copies held at the RAF Museum, Hendon. The Museum also holds microfilms of similar cards generated by successive ministries (Aircraft Production, Supply, Aviation, Technology) for military aircraft used by trials units and civilian contractors. I have to agree with TT (above), the handwriting is difficult to decipher and the jargon sometimes meaningless, but then, that’s what research is all about!
Air Ministry Forms 1180 – Accident Record Cards – one per accident/incident. Held as per the F.78, but by no means a complete set, many have been lost.
Form 540 – Operations Record Book (the formal diary of a unit or formation) and Form 541 – Detail of Work Carried Out (details of operations, sorties, exercises etc) – these are all held at the National Archive (a.k.a the Public Record Office) at Kew. Normally F.540 and 541 are grouped together by month, and are catalogued under:
AIR27 – Squadrons – held on microfilm
AIR28 – Stations – held as original documents
AIR29 – Other units (Flights, Trainings Schools etc) – held as original documents.
The Museum seems to be happy to send a small number of prints from microfilm if you know what you want. Not quite so easy with the F.540/541 at Kew, because although prints from microfilm can be done, at a price, how do you get to know what you want ? Not easy to visit, especially if your e-mail suffix is .ca.
Both Museum and Archive will sell copies of the microfilms (at least they certainly used to) but they are not cheap! But beware, if you do follow that route, the Museum microfilms are 16 mm and the Archive microfilms 35 mm. It’s never easy!
A quick Google for RAF Museum, National Archive and MOD AHB should provide up-to-date addresses. Certainly the Museum guys and gals are very helpful.
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesRon
Malcolm is right, the Lincoln is indeed RF533.
It spent its entire life flying with various test or experimental units. In June 1952, Portsmouth Aviation, sub-contracted by Avro, I believe, fitted a nose section designed to take any one of a number of fighter radomes and interception radar units, and it was delivered to RAE Farnborough in May 1954. Subsequently it also took part in windscreen/rain trials, and tests on parachutes, target banners and towing equipment at RAE. RF533 made its last operational flight on 21.4.61 and was struck off charge on 3.5.61, fatigue life exhausted. It was delivered to Stansted Fire Fighting School on 27.6.61 and burnt between 1962 and 1967.
As to the airfield, I don’t have a clue, sorry!
Allan
ChiefofFairiesIan
‘DF’ was the code letter combination allocated to the Central Bomber Establishment at Marham. and later at Lindholme.
The only Lincoln that I can identify as carrying DF-P was RF498, named ‘Crusader’ by CBE.
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesThe story of Schaffner’s recoveries appeared in Flypast for January 1995.
The Lake Constance Lancaster was coded ‘TL-R’ – photographic evidence in the above article and documentary evidence in 35 Sqdn’s Operations Record Book.
Comparing the Flypast photos and Troy’s three, the damage appears similar. And moreover, examining Troy’s l-2.jpg, there is what seems to be the top part of an ‘R’ visible between the bars of the gantry alongside the fuselage. My bet is that it was ND759 photographed during its brief period of public display. High definition scans might reveal more on blow-up.
However, if Peter is right and that front turret is faired over (can’t see it, meself)… well, ‘tain’t ND759 because that had a turret.
Allan
ChiefofFairiesIs there anybody out there who remembers the Coltishall Spitfire when it was the RAF’s only Firestreak-equipped Spitfire?
It was 1961, 23 Sqdn’s Javelins were moved out to Horsham St Faith and 74’s Lightnings were trying out the delights of their soon-to-be new home at Leuchars. Coltishall’s temporary occupants were the Lightnings of 56 and 111 Sqdn while Wattisham’s runways were repaired. At the end of the detachment, the visitors decided that a small gesture was appropriate and one dark night, the dummy Firestreaks standing either side of the doors to Station Headquarters were magic-ed away. The following morning they were to be found hanging by lashing tape, one under each wing of the Spitfire. The Spitfire – and Coltishall’s Station Commander (G/Capt Bird-Wilson?) – were not best pleased and official retribution followed.
Or so I’ve been told, of course ………..
ChiefofFairiesGood Evening
‘Fraid I don’t have interior photos of the Canadian Lancaster Transports or Passenger Planes, but I do have magazine references and a wee bit of info. concerning their history.
It would probably be best if you PM me and explain what you are looking for.
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesThe photo is definitely of RF343 (Serial No. in latter day Bomber Command form – full fuselage height and quite clear). The cockpit section is well ablaze, so presumably it was taken after the lads set the Verey cartridge off, not a wing tank as you remembered, well, not initially anyway.
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesPapa Lima
That’s quite a task you’ve set for yourself! I asked because I have some Lincoln first flight dates but as they are production airframes, they would be outside the scope of your database.
Sorry to hear of the loss of your family records. It seems to be a ‘stepmother thing’, mine did much the same.
Your Lincoln crash: The most likely candidate is RF343 of 61 Sqdn on 3 Sep 52. My database says: ‘On return to Waddington from a high level bombing training flight, a 3-engine landing was attempted at 1930 hours. The aircraft bounced on touchdown and although overshoot action was taken, only 80 knots could be achieved and RF343 crash landed on the edge of the airfield. The captain was F/O F Hercliffe, two crew members were injured, the remaining crew and passengers were unhurt.’
There is a photo of this aircraft ablaze in ‘Lincoln at War’ by Garbett & Goulding and the caption contains words to the effect that two days later some small boys playing in the wreck set off pyrotechnics. One boy died in the resulting fire.
Does any of this ring bells?
Regards
Allan
ChiefofFairiesGood to see photos from that era, Glyn. Dare I say “Keep ’em coming”?
For the record, the Lincoln spent its entire working life, as RF451, with 90 Sqdn at Wyton. It appears to have arrived at Halton during 1951 and was still being recorded there in December 1956.
Allan
ChiefofFairiesThe Cranfield Lincoln was PW932 – the 3rd prototype. My interest is in the first prototype, PW925 which was at Halton.
I think the year of the fire was 1947, but that could be + 3 years
Allan
ChiefofFairiesPapa Lima: Thanks for the Lincoln photos, always good to see. Don’t suppose you inherited any photos or logbooks from your father’s period with 61 Sqdn at Waddington? I presume your database is first flight dates of prototypes, not whole production runs? What are your limits?
682al: I hadn’t visited the British Pathe site before. Fascinating, thanks for that. The Lincoln shown appears to have fairings where it should have turrets, so it’s possibly an ex-Watton aircraft.
Melvyn: I have to agree with you. Apart from thousands of tons of scrap aluminium, at the end of the war, production of new aluminium in Canada was really getting into its stride, so nobody needed more scrap. And much as we are saddened by the sight of an aircraft being incinerated, or dissected at a training school, this usage is factored in to the original cost calculations. A proportion of the buy is intended to be used like this at the end of its flying life, as training is vital. It’s not just official vandalism!
Thanks, chaps, but I still don’t know the date of PW925’s end!
Allan
ChiefofFairiesHow about:
Airborne Canoe – of the Gnat by the USAF after the Red Arrows tour of N. America
and
Squash Bomber – of their own big and heavy F-105 Thunderchief by the USAF ‘cus if all else fails, land on the target and squash it’!
Allan
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