Dave HomewoodRegarding proper composers, I am certain that years ago i saw a documentary sequence of real Battle of Britain footage set to the music of Debussy- La Mer Trois esquisses symphoniques (No.2 Jeux de vagues).
I’m almost certain it was that piece, if not, then it too would make a stunning tune to use as it has all the right notes for beauty, menace, battle, etc.
I ahve dug out my DVD for a watch with the other soundtrack again now, thanks to this thread. As an aside, have you ever noticed in the openbing scenes set in France, where Harvie is handing important documents to his Intelligence Officer, the IO looks just like Skull from Piece of Cake.
Dave HomewoodHmm, that’s pretty much what I’d thought (although I thought the RAF Museum wa part of RAF. Oh well, wrong again.)
Dave HomewoodThat very tense moment where Section Officer Harvie yells at Mr Warwick has no music in the alternate score, and totally falls flat.
Some Americans discussed this film on WIX recently and rated it as a B grade film, with bad acting, a poor script and compared it to Midway! Amazing the differences in culture when viewing films.
Dave HomewoodFair enough Les. I never knew the IWM ran Cosford, I thought it was MoD-run like Hendon.
I was also told that the Canberra was bought from a scrapper so was misinformed about the nature of the deal. Either way, saved from scrapping.
David’s right that there are genuine ex-RNZAF ones still flying in the Indian Air Force (still going as far as my investigations can trace). And I agree a genuine example would be very desirable. Wouldn’t it be nice if one were donated by India to Wigram when they’re retired. Fingers crossed. Perhaps we could swap it for one of our old Skyhawks they can’t flog off. Then the UK and Aussie ones could be sold on perhaps.
Something else to consider about the storage of the Canberrs, there’s already an example of type in pristine condition on display, and as the P-40E, Vildebeest and Oxford were all far, far more imoportant and significant in RNZAF service they have got their priorities right I reckon. In fact after those projects are complete I think the Mosquito and Catalina projects should precede the Canberra assembly. Though an interesting type, and important in itself, the Canberra was not so important as these WWII machines historically to New Zealanders.
Dave HomewoodReally!
Doesn’t look all that ‘accessible’ to me. Looks like it’s been stuffed away in a corner and “. . . public can see it.” used as a ready excuse to gloss over the lack of interest in the ‘frame by the museum.
For your information, Les, the RNZAF Museum’s storage facility is at RNZAF Weedons, several kilometres out of Christchurch, and no public access is allowed there. By the very nature of your photograph showing the stored aircraft on public display, I rest my case.
Yeah, right. Thirteen years later and still in the same state as it was when it was shipped over!
And you’re unhappy with that? It’s in STORAGE!! It was bought if I recall correctly from a UK scrap dealer, so it could be in a much worse state.
Did you note the Catalina next to it, also in storage pending further restoration? Well that’s been with the RNZAF Museum longer. Both aircraft are safely indoors, the Canberra is in the same state as it arrived so no further harm has come to it.
The RNZAF Museum restoration team are among the best in the world, and considering they work on one of the world’s tightest budgets, perform miracles. The funding they get through official channels is just NZ$10,000 per annum according to my mate who is the W/O in charge. Work it out, that’s about 2,500 of your quid. Where else can you see currently world class restorations being done on a P-40, an Oxford and a VILDEBEEST for that little amount!!!!
They do accept public donation so if you want to pay to speed up the assembly and painting of the Canberra, by all means go for it.
‘Millions’? Don’t be silly. There is NO RAF Canberra B(I)8 in the UK. WT346 was the last and only example on this island. (And I want to hear no rubbish about WV787 at Newark. That airframe is a B.2 with a hybrid B(I)8 nose.)
That’s not the RNZAF Museum’s problem is it? Or mine. Anyone in the UK could have bought this airframe and many others like it, at the time when this was purchased. Why are there none there now, did you lot scrap them all? No forethought given to preservation, unlike Wigram who secured this airframe when they could….
Sure, maybe the type does deserve pride of place in your national collection, quite rightly, but not at the expense of our national collection simply because New Zealanders saved the airframe and your lot didn’t.
Dave HomewoodAs to the rant about the NZ Canberra; Dave H is quite right. It’s in safe care in store, like thousands of other important airframes. It’s hardly at risk or in bad hands. Who knows, it might return to the UK.
Personally I’d prefer to see the ex-RAAF Canberra in the museum that has no NZ provenance move on to pastures new, and the ex-RAF one which is the same model bascially as our own ones restored and added to the collection.
It is perfectly possible for the RNZAF to end up with a complete display Vildebeest, and for the ‘left overs’ 😀 to be passed on to make another for someone like the RAFM – this kind of thing will happen more and more in the future.
That’s debatable. I’m told the RNZAF Museum is working closely with the Subritzky’s in sharing knowledge and bits for their respective Vilde and Vincent restorations. With both the restorations I wonder just how much might be left over. The biggest hurdle in all this is there are no engineering drawings in existence. Would the RAF Museum even bother restoring an aeroplane from a pile of rusted leftovers from dump sites, especially when in their hands the aircraft was far from successful in wartime and of little importance compared with the RNZAF’s service with the type?
Dave HomewoodThere is even the odd Vildebeeste/Vincent frame around in NZ which might act a seed for a rebuild
There are three known remnants of Vildebeest (or Vildebeeste). All three are held by the RNZAF Museum and are currently actively being combined to form one beautifully restored airframe. So you can’t have one of them. There is a Vincent (or two) with the Subritzky family which they are restoring into one airframe. And there is a Vincent wreck, more a collection of bits I hear, in store with a mate in Blenheim, NZ. The latter would be the RAF’s only option I’d think as it has been for sale. The other two restorations are advanced and much loved here.
Get Canberra B(I)8 WT346 back from New Zealand.
Where after 13 years it still sits, broken down in transporation form, tucked away in the back of some museum.
That happens to be in storage in a national museum, the RNZAF Museum. Unlike many museums it was decided to store it where the public can see it, which is very good. It will eventually be restored fully as an RNZAF example when the museum additions have been built on and there’s room to display it.
You have millions of old Canberras lying around the UK, many of them rotting away, so why take one that’s well looked after here off us?
Dave HomewoodThat post should be printed in FlyPast for more enthusiasts and airshow-goers to read.
Well done to you and all the TFC team for sorting out so many engineering problems in time.
Dave HomewoodMind you the photos, coupled with family memories and the modern replica would make a great book and/or documentary story to tell.
I read something recently about a group trying to locate one of the Boeing Clippers too, which had crashed somewhere. That would be great to see revived.
Dave HomewoodI’ll bet you’ll return when the Mossie gets flying though eh Bruce, a trip to NZ in a couple of years in the planning?
Dave HomewoodIt can’t be beyond the wit of the organisers to devise a less disruptive system.
I met a chap at Wanaka who is a documentary maker, and was making a doco on the Warhorses re-enactor group. he told me he wanted to get shots of them on the flightline but was well aware of the disruption his high viz vest would cause to other viewers, so he got himself some WWII battledress with the should titles of War Correspondent, and in full army kit he not only blended in well but really looked the part, plus he got his shots without ruining everyone else’s.
There are clever ways around things when people make an effort.
Dave HomewoodI had a bit of a look at this aircraft today while visiting Ardmore. It looks even more stunning in reality, such beautiful craftsmanship – which i expected from Glynn and his team and the AvSpecs team. There was also a sizeable chunk of the original fuselage sitting next to it with lots of fittings attached, awaiting transfer I’d guess.
Meanwhile nearby was a lovely P-40 and some Spitfires undergoing their own restoration. What a great place!
Dave HomewoodDave HomewoodThose of us over here in NZ are still recovering from the fact that we’ll never see 863 against the Wanaka backdrop again! After 17 years here she was very much a part of the NZ aviation scene, and although I’m sure she will have a fine home in Temora we’re so sad to see her going! 863 was the first Spit I ever saw flying, and after one low pass the sound of the Merlin left that indelible impression that you just never get over. But I am now planning my first trip to Temora to see her in action….
Like many kiwis I share your sentiments Mike. An interesting thing about the Spitfire and Sir Tim, they were well known in the general public’s eye, not just enthusiasts. Kiwi icons, both of them.
You may be interested in a tribute thread we have going at the Wings Over New Zealand forum. Some lovely photos of the Spitfire there:
http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Airshows&action=display&thread=1151577028
Dave HomewoodAmazing collection. And they look in very good condition. Interesting to see the Firefly I, and also how many locally designed and built aircraft they’ve had.
I note they don’t seem to have a n NZAI CT-4 at the museum, are they still in service? Or did the museum not retain one when they left?
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